Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Could some of you kind folks post some pics of monster ratsnakes that are native to the U.S.? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

The largest rat snake native to the USA is Elaphe obsoleta. Black, Yellow, Gray, Everglades, or Texas, they are the largest rat snake in length found in the USA.

But good size for a bairdi.

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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

5 year captive blackrat.76" I hope he makes the 7 foot mark some day.Someone had a 7'+ het. for albino in the classifieds some time ago.

I caught a true 7-foot (84-inches measured) yellow rat snake in south florida about 3 years back. Didn't take any pictures though, as he (or she) was sick when captured and died shortly thereafter. I did catch another large rat snake, an everglades rat, last year. He was a truely over 72-inches (6-feet) but the only pictures of him I have are next to some 4-footers found on the same day. In the right areas I find a lot of big yellow and everglades rat snakes. I should make sure and take good pictures next time I find a real monster.

Here is a w.c. male bogey from Langtry, Texas which could be a record. Widget for yourself!
Todd Hughes

Hey Todd, Can't figure out how to widget it from this forum, but I remember seeing that guy, up close. He is huge! Don't remember how long you said he was. Does he beat the record? Dixon and Werler have the max size at 5 1/2 feet, and my old Audubon Society field guide says 66 inches max.

-Toby

I got 68" twice and I field measured it at 67. I am taking him down to the vets for a little help and try to tube him. He will not be anesthetized for a reading like that! If he is he is, if not, I am freakin' still happy as he is calm and very inquisitive and he is a buddy of mine now, lol!
Todd Hughes

Thornscrub Ratsnakes...Pantherophis guttatus meahllmorum...

Eric, it's not the longest of the ratsnakes, only around five ft., but Toby Brock's big male from Nueces County, TX, weighs around 1100 grams, and is the biggest corn snake I've ever seen...

TC
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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

I think he's still growing, too, Terry. Last weigh-in: 1116 grams! One or two large mice every two to three weeks.

-Toby

Come on, Guys,
That's a Burmese!!!!
LOL
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Regards, Bill McGighan

LOL! Who'd ever think an emoryi could get that big. That's why Conant and Collins ('98) have them listed as up to 60.25 inches, when they are normally only about 3ft.

Hey, Toby, better start measuring for a record.

Terry

Terry, I measured him back in early July, using the serp widgets snake measurer program, at 59.94 inches. He was 1048 g at the time, and now 1116 g. I'll try for another measurement soon.

-Toby

>>Terry, I measured him back in early July, using the serp widgets snake measurer program, at 59.94 inches. He was 1048 g at the time, and now 1116 g. I'll try for another measurement soon.
>>
>>-Toby

Toby, he's around the largest for Great Plains rats, 150 cm. According to Schulz ('96) there is a record at 180 cm for GPR's. I don't know of any voucher speciman at that length, however, and I'm thinking that might have been a "guttata" record, or a corn snake. I bet you could get a record length from your area, eventually. Your male's almost there already. If you've seen one at 5.5 ft., that's about 165 cm, that's a really big GPR. Good luck on that, and let us know if you get any new records. Thanks...

Terry

It seems kind of difficult to find an accurate record length for these snakes, and even northern emoryi. Dixon and Werler have the record length as 72 inches (182.9 cm) for e.emoryi, e.meahllmorum and g.slowinskii! This seems to be an old guttata record as well, that they did not bother changing (or getting new lengths/research), even though they consider guttata and emoryi to be different species. Roger Conant had the record at 57 inches for E.g. emoryi, and E.g. guttata at 72 inches, back in 1958.

-Toby

>>It seems kind of difficult to find an accurate record length for these snakes, and even northern emoryi. Dixon and Werler have the record length as 72 inches (182.9 cm) for e.emoryi, e.meahllmorum and g.slowinskii! This seems to be an old guttata record as well, that they did not bother changing (or getting new lengths/research), even though they consider guttata and emoryi to be different species. Roger Conant had the record at 57 inches for E.g. emoryi, and E.g. guttata at 72 inches, back in 1958.
>>
>>-Toby

Toby, was that 57" emoryi, Conant record from his old field guide? It's hard to keep up with all the literature. I know in the old days most considered the corn snake complex to be all one species, "guttata", but there were a few that used Elaphe emoryi for the Great Plains ratsnake concept. I also think that 72" record was for the corn snake complex as a whole when they were considered one species. I think the corn snake gets bigger than the Great Plains ratsnake, as far as max length goes.

Your Nueces "meahllmorum" trump that 57" record emoryi. So, you guys in s. TX should be able to come up with a new record for meahllmorum, at least. Whether it is applied to emoryi is another question. I think we should have max lengths for the subspecies and special localities also, which are hardly ever published. For instance, intermontana get to about 36", northern emoryi get ?, the Keys record is ?, etc, etc.

Thanks, later...TC

Terry,

Yes, that info is from "A Field Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians of the United States and Canada East of the 100th Meridian" by Roger Conant, 1958. My old male also beats that 57 inch GPR record at 58 inches. Interesting that you mention record lengths for ssps and locality animals, because Conant has record lengths for all of the ssps listed. He even has the Florida Keys corn variant, rosy rat snake (E.g. rosacea) as a ssp with a record length of 66 inches. The great plains rat is considered a ssp of guttata in this book.

-Toby

>>Terry,
>>
>>Yes, that info is from "A Field Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians of the United States and Canada East of the 100th Meridian" by Roger Conant, 1958. My old male also beats that 57 inch GPR record at 58 inches. Interesting that you mention record lengths for ssps and locality animals, because Conant has record lengths for all of the ssps listed. He even has the Florida Keys corn variant, rosy rat snake (E.g. rosacea) as a ssp with a record length of 66 inches. The great plains rat is considered a ssp of guttata in this book.
>>
>>-Toby

Hiya, Toby.

I had to buy a new Conant field guide a couple years ago, because I can't find my old one. Hang onto that '58 edition. It's a classic already, imo, and has info that we all could use in the future. I have the third edition, A Field Guide to Reptiles and Amphibians..Eastern/Central North America, 1998, by Roger Conant/Joseph T. Collins. In it they treat the corn snake complex as one species still, but with only two subspecies, Elaphe guttata guttata and E. g. emoryi. For "guttata" they retain the record length of 72", but for "emoryi" they have changed the record length to 60.25" (153 cm.) I think that reflects the move to look at species/subspecies more closely and the fact that more specimens were known at that time. Also, I think an even larger speciman from your area would be considered a new record for emoryi by most, even if we don't consider them emoryi ourselves.

Toby, you said Conant ('58) mentioned a record E. g. rosacea at 66". Does your book mention records for other subspecies? What's the record for E. g. emoryi and E. g. intermontana? Let me know any other ssps they consider, if there are any in the '58 edition. Thanks a bunch and good luck finding "meahllmorum" this Fall in Nueces and beyond....heheheh!

Terry

Terry, Conant has the record length for Elaphe guttata emoryi at 57 inches (the length my meahllmorum beat). He had E.g. guttata at 72 inches and E.g. rosacea at 66 inches, although no mention of intermontana. Another interesting thing about this old field guide is sub-subspecies. Conant has E.o.deckerti as a ssp of E.o.rossalleni and E.o. williamsi as a ssp of E.o.spiloides. I consider this guide to be a much better book than some of the newer ones out there, even though much of the information is outdated. I think that if we are going to consider meahllmorum and emoryi to be distinct ssps, then we should have separate record lengths for the two.

-Toby

Good info, Toby.

I think you're right about separate lengths for separate subspecies. For "intermontana" it should be around 36", the shortest of all the Great Plains ssps. For meahllmorum it should be 60", or more, probably the longest of all the Great Plains ssps. What is it for emoryi, a somewhat intermediate ssps of Great Plains ratsnake? I'm thinking it might only be around 48", or maybe it's more, but I don't have much experience with this ssps.

It'll be interesting to find out all the max lengths eventually. Later...

TC

LOL, no I second that! I thought I had a biggun but Toby's blew mine away, may he rest in peace. Ol' one eye finally gave up the ghost, I bet he was 12 or 13 when I got him!
Todd Hughes

How about a Gulf Hammock rat snake from Levy County, FL. that is just an inch shy of seven feet.

>>How about a Gulf Hammock rat snake from Levy County, FL. that is just an inch shy of seven feet.
>>

Nice. Do you have a weight on that guy?

TC

Nice! This was my first year finding those, and I only found a couple alive. Season is not over yet, so maybe I'll find a few more this year.