Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Guys, I've just signed up for this forum because I'm desperate for help, and none of you sound like "know it alls" like other forums I've been on.
I have a sick Texas collared (named Houston) and I don't know what to do. I'm tired of lining the pockets of the vet I'm bringing her to. She's stopped eating and has lost 6grams in th last 2 weeks, and who knows how much in the week before I could get her into the vet. She hasn't opened her eyes in two and a half weeks. The inside of her mouth is pale, and may be mucus-y (but I don't know what level of mucus they normally have in their mouths). She appears to have trouble breathing at times, gaping her mouth while tilting her head back like she's trying to take a deep breath. She squirms side to side almost like she has bugs in her tummy, but 2 fecal checks from 2 vets and 2 separate deworming treatments (yesterday and 2 weeks before) have definately ruled that possibility out. Vet says she's dehydrated... I say no S*** she's not eating!! Most recent fecal check revealed a whole ant and vet is now telling me that the formic acid from the ants may have a negative impact on her digestive system and could be poisoning her. I live in Florida, ants are a part of my life, and they never affected my collareds before, and I doubt ONE in her system is the culprit...
He tells me to soak her in Lipton teat and feed her strawberry ensure by eyedropper at least daily, but I can't get her mouth open to feed it to her... when i think i'm making progrss, she shakes her head vigorously, then freezes as if she's in serious pain and forgot that shaking her head would make it considerably worse.
I hate to see her suffer, and the vet keeps telling me all these different things to do as i pay him each time, but nothing is helping, it's starting to feel like i'm tube feeding a person on life support, you know? The ensure may keep her alive, but it'll never make her better (is what i'm starting to think)... And my poor mother... she asked how Houston was and I was in tears on the phone, I just don't know what to do and I feel like I'm failing her. I feel like the vet doesn't know what's wrong, and figures he'll just keep telling me things to do to appease me.
She's leaving teeny little fecal samples in the cage, and getting weaker daily, but we've ruled out an impaction.
So, no impaction, no worms/parasites... I come to this forum hoping SOMEBODY has breeder knowledge or keeper knowledge that exceeds that of the vet's... I thought her symptoms matched a respiratory infection but he said he "highly doubted it" and walked out when i was in the middle of asking a question since he was backed up that day and "quite busy".
Bull. I wanted to know what made him think it wasn't respiratory... I never got that answer. I guess it's still a possibility.

I thought when I first took her in that we could make her healthy again. Now I feel I'm lucky to find her waiting for me wen I get home from classes. I'm optimistic... but realistic. Can somebody please help me?

I really appreciate you guys reading this, I'm so sorry it was so long. I feel like I have nobody to turn to.

if he is gasping for breath, i would definitely think respiratory. they obviously don't believe in overmedicating if they would give parasite treatment to a negative fecal so just ask for baytril. i can't say for sure it is a rep infection but gasping for breath, lethargy and not eating certainly bring up visions of my life the last 5 months.

to feed a rehydrate lizards i mix canned dog food with clear pedialyte and then syringe feed. i also will pull down their lip on the side of their head and squeeze the tiniest amount. usually they will start to eat it voluntarily. if i have a really stubborn one and need to open its mouth. i will plug its noseholes (not the greatest thing to do) but they open their mouths immediately and then you can put little amount of food on its tongue. just don't choke him with too much food.
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vonnie

***Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. Oscar Wilde ***

What type of housing, heat temperatures, and bulbs are you using??

You mentioned ants, from what I've read that ants aren't a good thing for lizards unless you are horned lizard as the eat ants exclusively.

I would try soaking her in a very shallow dish of water, I'm not sure what else to suggest, there are people like Jeune and Eve who have more experience than I do.

Good luck and I hope it all turns out well.

Boost

>What type of housing, heat temperatures, and bulbs are you >using??

She came from a 40gal breeder with reptisand, a 100 watt day glo basking spot at one end with a rock pile and occassional days out in the the sun for uvb. I never had a uvb bulb since they were out in the sun frequetnyl enough, now i'm being told it's necessary no matter what. I'm running aboooouuut 90 deg F in the basking spot, 86 F ambient in the warm end and maybe 80-82 F in the cool end with a cave for hiding. The heat spot goes out at night leaving it a bit over room temp in the cage, since they have a heat rock that's on contantly. What she's in now is a 15 gallon with paper towels, a 75 watt bulb in the bask spot and a 13 watt fluoresent uvb (i forget what the true watt equiv is.. maybe 60 or 75?) and cave for hiding. no heat rock, she's too weak and may burn herself (I feel).. she moves about slowly and after monday's vet trip, appears to be regurgitating some liquid. boyfriend says medication would have been digested my now and it could be stomach fluids. No f'n clue.

>You mentioned ants, from what I've read that ants aren't a >good thing for lizards unless you are horned lizard as the eat >ants exclusively.

So I've heard, in researching info about formic acid i read a lot of posts and scientific journals anout horned lizards and ants, but nothing conclusive about its effect on iguanidae family, except that it *might* have an effect on their metabolism (unproven as far as i know), but i havent seen ants in the cage in all the years ive been down here except a week ago, so my feeling is that i doubt thats the problem, just another bit of BS the vet came up with as an excuse for her illness.

>I would try soaking her in a very shallow dish of water, I'm >not sure what else to suggest, there are people like Jeune and >Eve who have more experience than I do.

Vet has advised to do this, soaking her in lipton tea at room temp and try pedialyte as well. Not responding to it aside from her looking generally uncomfortable sitting in a pool of warm liquid. As far as I know anyway, but I wiiilllll continue to do this until the vet knows whats wrong or decides she cant be made well again. I don't want to euthanize if she can recover, but I dont want her to suffer if she can't.

i think eve mentioned this below but the basking spot needs to be 100 degrees. that 10 degree difference doesn't seem like much to us, but it really affects them. and yes i would leave the lamps on all the time while she is sick. i have a cave that i will put halfway under the light and halfway not under the light, it's pretty big and i let lizard chose if it wants to be hot or warm all night
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vonnie

***Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. Oscar Wilde ***

What wattage bulb would you recommend? I'm always afraid I'll burn them, and pet store owners/employees seem to be lacking in their knowledge about collareds. (I actully had one tell me that a 100watt in a 40 gallon may be too hot for them...)

i use very few things from the pet store. i have uvb bulbs and then i use halogen floodlights (not spotlights) from the home depot. they are much much cheaper than alot of the commercial stuff. i think for as tall as my cages are that i use a 90 watt. the best way to check is to buy an indoor/outdoor thermometer and use the little "arm" to check the temps under the basking spot. if it flucuates up to 110 in the afternoon, it's not a huge deal, just as long as they have places to cool off. when i used sand, i used washed playsand from the home depot too. i have been dealing with illnesses all summer and don't have my guys on anything right now but paper towels.

with the heat though, it's sort of trial and error but at least the home depot bulbs are alot cheaper
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vonnie

***Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. Oscar Wilde ***

I will DEFINATELY try this, thank you very much for the info. Good to know the name of a medication to ask for, if he denies me, at least this time he may tell me why, ya know? Thanks again!!

sounds for sure like a resp infection/bacterial infection.

They have trouble breathing so they hold their heads pointed towards the ceiling to try and get air. The mucos can also be collecting in the mouth , even bubbling out if really badly congested. The eyes are also a symptom. Stuck shu,t or looking sandy/watery.

The only thing that can even give your Houston a chance is an antibiotic , probably Batril would be used. But these guys go down fast so you can't waste anytime getting the medicine. Seems as though your vet has wasted alot of precious time.

I would also make sure the heat is where it should be, at least 100 - 105 and even keep it on at night while he's sick.
Keeping him hydrated is really important, I agree with Vonnie use some petdialyte in the childrens isle in supermarket. Kind of like Gatoraide, keeps his energy up.

Use a dropper and drip in the corner of mouth slowly, or on his snout and let him lick it as to not choke him.

All I can say is HURRY and get a vet to give you some batril, otherwise you may lose the battle.

I wish you the best with your guy, such a shame when they are sick please let us know how you make out and how is is .
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

THANK YOU sooooo much. I am very grateful for this information. unfortunately the vet closes on wednesdays at 1pm (figure that....) but i will call them tomorrow and ask about the batril. I had been checking out symptoms on various sites on the internet and she had so many of the symptoms that points to a resp infection, but like i said, when i mentioned it to the vet he said he doubted it was that. I was so confused, I thought for sure I'd pinpointed the problem. Not many herp vets in miami for some reason, at least none i know of other than the 2 ive seen, which seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum... one would have put her down already, and the other keeps trying crap that's obviously not the answer. I'm really glad I'm not going crazy and that you guys think it could be resp infection too. Thanks a million again, and I will keep posting on progress; I just hope the vet hasn't wasted too much time and she cant recover. Thanks again!!!

Hrm, just an off the cuff thought about dealing with a busy vet and the other one not seeming where his/her head is at.

With the recommended urgency of getting Baytril and getting Houston on it, I would suggest perhaps, checking with reptile rescue centers or even animal rescue.

Good luck

Boost

I think we might actually have an animal hospital in a neighboring town. Thanks for the idea!

I'm sorry I'm a little late in registering my thoughts on the matter, but better late than never, huh?

I completely agree with the others--you are dealing with a respiratory infection, no doubt about it. You've got better instincts than your vets! Although the two vets you've seen may call themselves reptile vets, they apparently don't know enough about reptiles to take care of one the most common ailments they have. You may want to start looking for another vet.

Baytril is exactly what you need; I hope you've managed to get your hands on it by now, and I sincerely hope that Houston is still alive. You need to give 1/100th of a cc daily. Keep the temps up in the cage, and keep her well hydrated and fed, if possible. I have tube fed many lizards in this state; they will rarely eat on their own when they're this sick. Don't give up her. It ain't over 'til it's over, and she may very well pull through with the right treatment.

I know I'm not saying anything that the others haven't already said, but I just want to reinforce the very good suggestions that you got. Please let us know how she's doing.

élan
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5.6.0 Collareds
1.2.0 Leopard Lizards
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
1.2.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
1.0.0 Treefrog (Alabama native)
Even More Felines
1.3.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

Better late than never for sure. Unfortunately, depite the feeding and tender loving care she received, I was unable to contact anybody with Baytril and Houston passed away overnight last night. The last time I tried to feed her she was extraordinarily weak; to the point where it was hard to tell if she was even breathing. I knew it was going to be touch and go. Unfortunatey, she just couldn't stay strong for us anymore.

I'm VERY grateful for the huge response (huge intelligent response... other forums it just sounds like kids who know nothing), and I'm amazed that we could all agree on what she had. I want to take this time to say my piece... When the vet told me he was going to deworm her and she should be eating shortly, i had hope. When she didnt start eating, I started checking websites for symptoms and everything I turned up pointed to resp infection. Vet said he "highly doubted that was the problem". When everybody on this forum said resp infection... I couldn't believe how the vet couldn't see it.
With that said I'm really freaking pissed off that this vet screwed me and took my money for f'ing nothing.

Sorry.

So... guys, thanks a million for all of your information and support. I feel better that Houston isn't suffering anymore, but I would have felt a lot better if the vet had listened to me.

If anybody knows of a better vet in Miami, pass on the info, as long as it isn't DR. CASE in Ft. Lauderdale.

Thanks again guys.
~Tiff

>>I'm sorry I'm a little late in registering my thoughts on the
matter, but better late than never, huh?
>>
>>I completely agree with the others--you are dealing with a respiratory infection, no doubt about it. You've got better instincts than your vets! Although the two vets you've seen may call themselves reptile vets, they apparently don't know enough about reptiles to take care of one the most common ailments they have. You may want to start looking for another vet.
>>
>>Baytril is exactly what you need; I hope you've managed to get your hands on it by now, and I sincerely hope that Houston is still alive. You need to give 1/100th of a cc daily. Keep the temps up in the cage, and keep her well hydrated and fed, if possible. I have tube fed many lizards in this state; they will rarely eat on their own when they're this sick. Don't give up her. It ain't over 'til it's over, and she may very well pull through with the right treatment.
>>
>>I know I'm not saying anything that the others haven't already said, but I just want to reinforce the very good suggestions that you got. Please let us know how she's doing.
>>
>>élan
>>-----
>>5.6.0 Collareds
>>1.2.0 Leopard Lizards
>>1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
>>1.2.0 Green Anole
>>1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
>>1.0.0 White's Treefrog
>>1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
>>1.0.0 Treefrog (Alabama native)
>>Even More Felines
>>1.3.0 Canines
>>1.0.0 Equine
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"Were the diver to think upon the jaws of the shark, he would never lay hands on the precious pearl."

I'm sorry that you and Houston lost this battle. That's awfully sad, especially considering that she might have been okay if your vet had just listened to you. That's a real tragedy.

élan
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5.6.0 Collareds
1.2.0 Leopard Lizards
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
1.2.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
1.0.0 Treefrog (Alabama native)
Even More Felines
1.3.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

It seems to me that she had a great time while she was here, and a great mom that looked after her just fine, its a terrible shame that so many have been taken from us this year, but I hope you're consoled by the thought that they're all together doing their thing in the big desert in the sky.
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Kelly

There is a thin person inside of me trying to get out. I keep her quiet with chocolate

www.collaredlizards.co.uk