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Ive seen some really nice orange and yella Kings like Jeff's Brooksi Goini crosses and really even more than my own orange and black Eastern Kings nuttin beats the stark beauty of a Black and White Eastern. Here are some old pics of mine...
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Agree completely, beautiful! Sam

Not all of them are orange! . . . .Since some people like to call em' goini's (or goini X easterns), here's a pic of one of mine. This "goini" came straight from Kevin Enge himself (so it must be goini), but really has NO goini in it to be truthful! Just havin' fun . . . But I have to admit that this (03' animal), is the darkest I've ever seen from S. Ga. locale. And he's a big one too - right at 5 foot already!

CHEERS ( or BEERS),

Zee

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

North Carolina has some good ones, but this is by far the best one I've personally seen (from any state). And he looked this good when I found him (as an old 5 footer under a huge tin sheet):
The pic is no exagration (Peter Jolles from ECC, and Todd Hughes "Antelope" have seen this guy and he's a clean one! Can't wait to get back home (from Overseas), and I'll take some more pics of this big bruiser. He's also one of my many "rat wreckers"!

Zee

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

"But really has NO goini in it to be truthful!"

Does capitalizing the “no” make that statement more true? Not to be a stickler here but you are making claims that Will or Kevin do not make! That wide-bandedness in the subject south GA population is not a result of goini influence is opinion not fact. Given the founding population’s proximity to goini I'd personally say it’s an ill informed opinion but you are entitled to it none the less.

This is a classic example of how one can get so caught in the desire to have something both unique and pure that they are willing to overlook the obvious! No matter how often you guys truthfully state that this line, “has NO goini in it” or detract from legitimate questions regarding the genetic heritage of these animals, that some degree of “natural” influence from adjacent goini populations is manifest remains quite plausible.

All that you can say is what Will or Kevin have said, that this is a pure locality line though I will add that it’s a darn fine one.

Well, now that I'm talking to a fellow snake veteran (as far as I know, I DID meet you in VA. twice), I MUST agree with you "Plausible" Is a good word. (You must watch "Mythbusters" a lot too, lol)
But when saying what I have said previously, my intention was for the AVERAGE person to understand that I and I mean I, did not breed ANY goini into this line. Wether or not goini WAS bred into this line in the ancient past, is indeed plausible and given the proximity of locality, I can not dispute that and won't! But remember, Tony MOST folks, and I DO mean a majority of folks on here ARE NOT as experienced as some of us and my intention was to reduce any possible confusion with these animals after making a few off-the-wall comments. Now, when it comes to selling the offspring to ANYBODY, I will tell them all (location heritage, possible goini influence blah, blah blah), because a person interested enough to invest a little money in such a pretty snake deserves to know as much information as possible in order to keep this hobby honest (hopefully).
But thanks for keeping this going (in case someone IS interested enough to want to know.)
And between you and I (and a few others), isn't it also interesting that eastern kings from Va. Beach and adjacent areas ALSO display very nice crisp white, WIDE bands and almost black background coloring (like my S.GA. animal)? Do you currently have any nice wide banded VA. animals (pics please if you do)?
Oh, almost forgot, thanks for the compliment. It is a very nice looking animal considering that I only paid 30 bucks for him and his sister.

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

To much in there to answer just now but if you meant no intentional crossing you should have said so. This comes back to the definitions and terms we've talked about before. As for the compliment you are welcome it was sincere!

Here's a pic of a wide banded NC king. Note that the typical chain pattern is still there. I've never seen one from this area that was "banded" like some of the S GA animals I've seen. Not saying some don't exist but generally chain patterns rule. Also of note is that these do not breed true. High white in adults is a very poor indicator of pattern in neonates. Generally only 1 in 5 neonates will be high white wide banded types. You get the same results breeding two more typical kings from this area as well.

That's a very nice one. I like the fact that they are wide banded AND have chains! Most of South Ga. animals have no chains or very "low" chains if you know what I mean. Thanks for the pic. Great animal!
I wonder if anyone has ever had any E. kings that displayed piebaldism? That would bring out a wild looking animal!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Hey Zee,
Here's a pic of the male Eastern I flipped July '05 from Virignia Beach, Va.. Sorry about the lousy camera and horrible photoghraphy skills
-Phil

Wow! That's what I like!!! Even with the low background light, I can see that's a beauty! Do you live near the area (Va. Beach)? If you do, I'll have to remember you for next year, lol!Thanks,

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Yes, I do live in Va. Bch.. Atleast until this time next year.
My wifes in the Army and we're not sure yet where they'll send us next. Peter Jolles has 9 of the 11 from a F1 clutch from this year. He has pics on his sight if you want to check them out.
-Phil

I have one of those 9 Va. Beach kings which I puchased from Peter. Beautiful king with an all cream white belly.
Mike

Cool! Keep us posted on how it's doin' for you. Pics would be nice too. One thing that was really nice about that whole clutch was that 9 of the 11 took live pinkies on the first try, so they should grow pretty quick. Especially since the little boogers are bottomless pits. I've been feeding the two that I held back a pinky ever three days and they don't even look like they've eaten by the second day. Enjoy.
-Phil

i totally agree. as i have stated i beleive its wrong to market/sell them as true lgg when there is such obvious signs of other getula ssp.in the mix ancestrial or not its visual! and marketing them as lgg only adds to the current state of confusion with taxa. the taxa winds of change are blowin though and it will be interesting to see how the Ga. getula are classified,,when they fla.,goini,lgg are all lumped together i suppose it wont much matter,,,,,thomas davis

I bet you could use a nice cold beer out there in the sandbox.
If and when I meet you, first rounds on me. When my wife came home from Kuwait she sucked down hers quicker than I could get mine open, and she doesn't even like beer. LOL!
Thanks for the pic!
-Phil

THANKS!
That's true (about the beer), since alcohol of ANY kind is not allowed anywhere in THIS country. This country is dry in more ways than just the weather, lol! Can't wait to get back!!!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I need several females. While out hunting last year, both females I purchased from Will Still croaked. I guess I didn't emphasize the water requirements of Lgg to my buddy who was taking care of my collection. I have tried Will but have not gotten a response and Keith is high male. Anybody have any surplus, or know how to reach Will?
Thanks
Colin Smith

Keith, your photography skills are amazing!
-Phil

>>Keith, your photography skills are amazing!
>>-Phil
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Super nice snakes! I always admire your photography. Hey - that yearling black milk male you sent me in the Spring is doing awesome! His growth is still phenomenal. He's easily about 50" now and probably about 2 years old? and COMPLETELY black. When my comp is fixed I'll get you pics!

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Matt from Minnesota