Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just a few food questions. I plan on getting a juvenile, not a baby but not an adult. I've done research but everywhere I look everything says something completely different so I'm looking for some personal perspectives.

Can a food supplement, like Rep Cal, replace live insects in the diet as long as sufficient vegetables are supplied?

If not, are there any other insects small enough for juveniles to eat besides crickets?

For vegetables, I know fresh produce is best, in a pinch are canned vegetables acceptable or are all the nutrients gone?

How much and how often should juveniles be fed, please explain each element of the diet, ie-vegetables, supplements, insects (if necessary).

Until what age is a dragon considered a juvenile?

How much and how often should adults be fed, again please explain each element of the diet.

Thanks everybody! Just want to make sure I know everything I need to before I go get the little guy!

You asked..."Can a food supplement, like Rep Cal, replace live insects in the diet as long as sufficient vegetables are supplied?"...I assume you mean Rep-Cal bearded dragon food? I've never used commercial products to feed my insects or my dragons....so I can't comment on it.

You asked..."If not, are there any other insects small enough for juveniles to eat besides crickets?"...small silk worms should be okay. With the crickets, its important not to feed beardies crickets that are too big for them. Its said that they should only be as long as the width between the dragons eyes.

You asked..."For vegetables, I know fresh produce is best, in a pinch are canned vegetables acceptable or are all the nutrients gone?"...I have never used canned veggies for my beardies. I have used mixed frozen ones that I've thawed to room temperature...but be aware that freezing will destroy some of the vitamins...and its not a good enough diet to use for more than a day or two IMHO...and not unless its absolutely necessary.

You asked..."How much and how often should juveniles be fed, please explain each element of the diet, ie-vegetables, supplements, insects (if necessary)"...I feed mine insects daily (mostly crickets, as many as they will eat in a couple of minutes) and greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, etc.), veggies (sweet red pepper, squash, carrots, zucchini, sweet potato, etc....all cut to appropriate sizes) and a little fruit (apple, pear, melon, berries, etc.) every day too.

I gutload the insect before they are fed to the beardie and dust the insects at almost every feeding just before I feed them to it with a phosphorous free calcium powder. Insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phos. so this is meant to balance it out.

I dust with a vitamin powder lightly twice a month making sure that the vitamin A in it comes from a beta carotene source. Beta carotene sources don't builb up in the system, but preformed sources can.....and with beardies, it can be a problem.

If the dragon gets its UVB light (the light should not pass through glass or plastic) from artificial sources, then I dust lightly twice a month with a calcium/D3 powder. Vitamin D3 from supplements can build up in the system, so caution is needed. Vitamin D3 produced from exposure to UVB lighting can't build up in the system.

Correct basking temperature is important too since it plays a part in food digestion, thus nutrient absorption.

You asked..."How much and how often should adults be fed, again please explain each element of the diet"...the only change I make between young dragons and adults is that I feed them larger insects and more variety (silkworms, butterworms, superworms, on occasion, waxworms, etc.) and alternate the feedings...insects one day and greens, etc. the next day.

One of the main things that beardies suffer from is MBD (metabolic bone disease) caused by an imbalance in nutrients (mainly vitamin D3, vitamin A, calcium and phosphorous)...so its important to keep these things in balance.

Water is provided by spraying/misting...more than once a day for babies and once a day for adults.

Here are some sites with good information...
http://www.biology.lsa.umich.edu/research/labs/ktosney/file/BDcare.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/skintests.htm#discussion

Hope this helps!

For juvenile dragons...roughly 6-12 months old, feed insects once a day, greens offered all day as well.

Instead of crickets or in addition to them, silkworms, butterworms, various species of roachs (especially the young of larger roaches) small horn worms (not wild caught, these are toxic. They can be bought to be used as reptile feeders. These are raised on a special chow that lacks the toxins the wild ones normally accuminate from the foods they eat in the wild), some superworms, waxworms and the new phoenix worms, these last three should not be everyday but can be offered once a week as a treat.

I suggest dusting with calcium without phosphorus but with vitamin d3 once every other day. A multivitamin once a week for juveniles, once a month or once every other week with adults.

Canned vegetables are useless. Most of the nutrients have long since leached away during processing. Frozen vegetables are better but lack a couple nutrients which are destroyed in the process of freezing (thalimine is one, I beleive). This shouldn't be too much a concern as dusting with multivitamin on the insects will balance it. However, you need to feed a much greater variety of greens than what can be found frozen. The website below has a great charge for what greens are good for dragons and how frequent they can be used.

www.beautifuldragons.com

The real important thing is to give your dragon as much variety as possible. This is the best way to ensure he is getting a healthy diet. Even bad greens, such as spinach, romanine, kale etc are not as bad when mixed with several good greens, such as collard greens, dandelion greens, etc. I find what works best is to use two or three big staple greens (ie collards, dandelion greens) then add different greens and vegetables, such as kale, parsley, zuccini, bell peppers, endive, escaroli etc, rotating between them every couple weeks. For additional variety, I often chop up seedless grapes (one or two grapes, depending on age of dragon), a few blue berries, strawberries etc and sprinkle it ontop of the greens. Various edible flowers are great for treats as well, such as dandelion flowers (make sure they have never been in contact with any herbicides or insecticides), hispiscus flowers, panseys etc.

Another thing to consider is insects should be reduced as the dragons age...adult dragons (14 months ) should only have 10% of their daily diet insects, the rest greens and vegetables. Hatchlings and very young dragons are the opposite, needing about 90% insects and only 10% greens/vegetables. Juveniles and young adults fall in the middle of those extremes...roughly 40-60% greens.

There will always be some variation on how people raise their dragons. Some people like to offer a few insects every day to their dragon as well as their salad. Others feed insects a couple times a week. There is no set in stone method so finding what works for your dragon may take a bit of experimentation.

One other thing to remember is the food you give your dragons is only as good as the food given to their food...that is to say, what you feed your insects will reflect on how good they are for your dragon. Typically, store bought crickets are not well fed, some may not be fed at all, thus, feeding these to your dragon right away, is feeding them next to nothing but empty shells. Its like feeding a chicken egg after the contents have been sucked out of the shell, leaving just the shell itself.

Thus it is very important to gut load insects. For crickets, roaches and other insects that eat a variety of foods, feeding them at least 24 hours before giving them to your dragon, isthe best way to ensure they are full of nutrition. For crickets, feed them the exact same greens and vegetables you feed your dragon, add crushed low fat dogfood, fish flakes, store bought gutload, chicken mash or similar stuff to your crickets. I beleive you can feed much the same to most species of roaches as well. It also helps to add some plain calcium powder and multivitamin to the insect food as well (very small amounts, a pinch of each is more than enough, depending on the size of batch of food prepared).
-----
PHLdyPayne