Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I acquired a red Saharan "Niger" uro several days ago. He's got plenty of room for his juv/sub-ad size, and I've got a 100w basker on the hot side and one of those Repti UVA/UVB lights on the cooler side. He loves lying on the rock under the hot spot all day and night, rarely moving. I have given him food every day, but I'm not so sure he's getting it. I tried canned corn and birdseed the first few days and I don't think he tried it. Yesterday I got him some fresh endive and hibiscus as per the caresheets I've read. I sprinkled them with calc powder. The feeding dish is flat, so he can see into it.

However, he just doesn't seem to be interested in moving at ALL. He literally NEVER leaves his rock, though he does move around on it a lot. I know handfeeding any animal is inadvisable, but I tried and voila! He'll greedily eat the leaves non-stop from my hand, but he will not go near the dish. I also have crickets in the tank.

What's going on? Do you think it has to do with winter (esp. considering that he's admittedly wild caught and may be used to slowing down at this time)? Is he just still in his adjustment period to my home? He never stands up either (on his front legs, as they always seem to do in pics). He is always splayed out completely flat like a sleeping dragon with his legs kicked out, eyes closed.

I want to do right by him. Any help? Thanks in advance.

Alex

Sounds quite odd. I've had a Nigerian for about 8 months now so I am by no means an expert... but here goes.

Get rid of the crickets. They don't need them. Once and a while for a treat is fine but not on a regular basis.

How old is it? Was it hand fed before you got it? Seems odd that a wild caught Uro would even let you get close to it. My uro will not eat from my hand unless it is a superworm. I'll hold a dandelion head in my hand and she will not touch it. I set it down an inch away from my hand and she is all over it.

What do you consider "enough room"? Have you checked the temps on both sides of the tank? What about leaving some endive on her rock instead of in a dish? You say he never leaves his rock.. do you have hides for him anywhere in the tank for him to get under? Are you turning off the heat lamp at night?

Just some thoughts... others here will prolly be more helpful.

Good luck

Thanks. I'm replying to your q's in caps below...

"Get rid of the crickets. They don't need them. Once and a while for a treat is fine but not on a regular basis."

DONE. THANKS. MY TIMOR MONITOR IS HAPPY ABOUT THAT DECISION. I DON'T REALLY TRUST THE LOCAL REP GUY HERE, HE HAS LIED MANY, MANY TIMES AND IS FREQUENTLY WRONG. HE SAID THE LOW PROTEIN DIED FOR UROS IS A FALLACY AND THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN LOTS OF BUGS. KINDA DOUBTED IT MYSELF. I'LL TRY OFFERING ONLY ONCE IN A WHILE.

"How old is it? " DON'T KNOW EXACTLY, AS THE SELLER SAID IT WAS WC, BUT IT'S ABOUT 12" HEAD TO TAIL TIP.

"Was it hand fed before you got it?" NOT THAT HE MENTIONED.

"Seems odd that a wild caught Uro would even let you get close to it. My uro will not eat from my hand unless it is a superworm. I'll hold a dandelion head in my hand and she will not touch it. I set it down an inch away from my hand and she is all over it. " YES INDEED, I THOUGHT THIS WAS REMARKABLE.

What do you consider "enough room"? 30G BREEDER TANK.

Have you checked the temps on both sides of the tank? DURING THE DAY, UNDER THE HEAT LAMP ABOUT 106-112 DEGREES...TO ANSWER THE OTHER GUY WHO REPLIED, THIS IS WITH A DIGITAL POINTER THERMOMETER.

What about leaving some endive on her rock instead of in a dish? WILL TRY THAT.

You say he never leaves his rock.. do you have hides for him anywhere in the tank for him to get under? NICE SNUG HIDE BOX, HE DOES GO IN IT TOO SOMETIMES, BUT MORE OFTEN ON THE ROCK.

Are you turning off the heat lamp at night? ABSOLUTELY. 12/12. NIGHT TEMPS ARE IN THE ACCEPTABLE LOW RANGE RANGE, MY HOUSE IS COOL, I USE A/C.

To address some things the other responder wrote, believe me, I did my research on the diet. I've amassed all the things the various caresheets recommend, including beans, birdseed, endive, hibiscus...and remember, it does seem to relish the leafy greens...but so far only if I feed them to it myself! Now, I admit, I did notice most of the hibiscus was gone overnight, but the crickets may have been gnawing it. I will check tonight now that the bugs are in my other reptiles' gullets.

Thanks so far, your thoughts are helpful.

We need to know a few things before guessing what might be going on. How large is the tank (in inches, not gallons)? What are your temperatures - basking, warm side ambient, and cool side? Be sure to measure these with a digital or infrared thermometer, as stick on dial ones are garbage.

Couple suggestions: Get the crickets out. They are likely stressful on the lizard, plus if he actually eats them, they can be hard on his system if he's not properly hydrated (which he won't be if he's not eating).

Read more on diet. Endive is better than canned corn, but you'll NEED to provide an appropriate diet. The care sheet here on Kingsnake is a good place to start.

Get a fecal sample (or the whole lizard) to the vet. WC animals are usually parasite loaded and very stressed from importation. This can cause him to be lethargic and not eat. A vet check is never a bad idea.

Parasites are the first thing I think of with newly WC animals - take care of that and you'll have a much better chance with him. After that, many problems are in the husbandry. If your temps are too cool, he won't leave the basking rock because he's desperately trying to get warm enough. Make sure you have a reliable thermometer and double check all your temps! WC geyri need a large space to acclimate well - he needs to be in at least a four foot enclosure. Your statement about big enough for his juvie size makes me worry he's in a little 24" 20L.

And please remember I'm not assuming these are the problems in your case - I'm just trying to address the common problems since we don't have your details yet!
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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.1 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, Tank, and Lilly)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.1 Green Anoles (Bowser, Sprocket, Leeloo)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

Where did you purchase the Uro & what do you know of it's prior history? It obviously doesn't sound like CB. If WC, is it a recent import or a long-term animal? My guess is that you have a recent import with all the associated health problems. Find a good vet!

For what it's worth, none of the Uros I've ever kept would eat corn. Supplemented sweet peas, oh yes!!

I purchased my Mali as a "CB"... I'm pretty sure he was a WC.

First things first- for a footlong uro, I'd definately recommend a larger cage than a 30 gallon. I'm using a 35"x20"x18", and I feel that that is fairly minimal for my 10" uro.

Temperatures should be much higher as well.
If he sits in the basking spot all day long, that can be interpreted as temperatures below what he needs. Generally, from what I've read, heard, and the experiences I've had with my Uromastyx, I like to keep the temps of my basking spots well above 120 degrees F. At one point, I was using two heat lamps just to keep the hot side of his cage up to the proper temperatures. They are desert lizards...

My uro ate a little bit when I first got him, but took a light fast for about two weeks when he was acclimating. He ate, but barely what I expected him to. Nowadays he eats out of my hand, but still warily.

As far as getting him to eat away from his hot spot- I had some trouble getting mine to leave his warmer hide spot in order to eat. Do whatever you can to make sure he gets a bit of hyrdration and food for now, and in the long run, try to make sure he realizes that the trip to the food dish is not dangerous.

The experience I've had thus far was, in its most basic sense, make sure the lizard gets the bare minimum food intake, and in time, it will learn to support itslef in its new environment.

I hope I helped address your concerns.

Sorry, missed the fact that it was a 30 breeder.

I don't think that should pose a problem of any sort.

One more thing: If he hasn't left the hotspot the entire time you've had him, make sure he's getting his UV light. You mentioned that it was over the cool side, if I'm not mistaken. I'd throw it on top of the hot spot.

Peter:

Your suggestions have been very helpful. Actually, thanks to everybody (and yes, I'll try peas instead of corn).

You mentioned two basking lights. Do you think putting the 75w right next to the 100w in his warm side is good? Also, as far as the cool side, yes I do have the UVA/UVB on that side, which is of course his sunlight and a bit of warmth. Do you suggest I move that closer to his hot spot too, or don't you think that would chill his cool side an awful lot? In any case, what light arrangement do you think would be good? I know from all my research that they like ultra heat, just didn't know that actually meant over 110w! Wow!

Also, about the sluggishness, I've also been reading that on some google searches. It seems more than a few people experience some slow adjustment. I don't have a problem babying and monitoring him, I have many, many pets and for me the fun is the care. He didn't eat overnight, but I'll certainly put some more veggies in there today after work.

What's the optimal time of day to fill up his feeding bowl?

You should be measuring heat with a thermometer, not by the wattage of the bulbs. There is no magic wattage combination to create the right heat. You have to play around with it and keep measuring the basking/surface and air temperatures all around the enclosure until you find the right combination to create the correct temperature gradient. You might want to try a flood light, something like a PAR 38 halogen flood with a normal beam (the narrow beams get too hot) over the basking site to raise the basking temperature to 120-130 degrees or so. Then use regular bulbs to finish raising the air temperature to 95-100 degrees on the hot side as well as 80-85 on the cool side. You -have- to have a thermometer to measure these temps though. Your lizard can't regulate it's own body temperature so it only gets what you give it. Too cold and it won't move and die... too hot and you can kill it.

I'd put the food into the cage in the morning and leave it all day until the lights go out. The sooner you get the temperatures right, the sooner he'll probably start eating (as long as its not any other problem people have already posted about)

I said in my first reply, I have the digital point-and-click thermometer. Believe me, I know the basics. I have the 100w over the hot spot and I held the therm. right over his rock, where the ambient temp registered 106 degrees. Thanks for your input though.

BTW...

I really want to say thanks so far to everyone again. I was reticent to even post. I've found the regulars on some forums are downright stuck-up jerks, most especially monitors and arboreal snakes (always accusing anyone who has the slightest problem of being a "kid" who didn't research the animal).

This is a friendly forum, and your suggestions have already been useful.