Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Mid-September my wife and I spent a few days in FT. Davis, Alpine, and Terlingua, West Texas; Suboc country.
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The Davis Mountains and others are in an area where there are hundreds and hundreds of square miles of excellent habitat for several color variations of Trans-Pecos Rat Snakes (Bogertophis subocularis) – Suboc for short. This area is crossed by very few roads.
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Although this pic doesn’t show the color of this female very well, she seems to have allot of rootbeer colors.
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From the same rock group, here is a small male.
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This is a thin male on a cut near the Rio Grande River.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Nice post, Bill! Great shots of the subocs and the habitat. Did you see any bairdi?

-Toby

Thanks Toby,
We saw 2 "last year's" bairds, but none of this years hatchlings.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Great post and pictures. Thanks for posting Bill. Randy W.

Thanks Randy.
Is that a "silver" "blond"?
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Regards, Bill McGighan

It's a silver or what some call a silver blond. Randy

Great subocs, Bill, but how 'bout that gorgeous G. P. rat you found out there too? Haha!

Terry

This one?

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Taxonomy has that as an intergrade P. g. emoryi x P. g. meahllmorum, I believe. Actually I tried to create an intergrade bt intermontana and meahllmorum this summer and came up with this...

This little guy was one of two that hatched for me. This artificial intergrade is different from the natural one you have posted, much less attractive, imo.

Bill, do you have any size info on that snake, length or weight, etc? Thanks much...

Terry

Wow, Terry, That little snake is neat.
What is the dorsal blotch count (snout to vent) on that animal comparing to intermontana and meahllmorum?
I have a pic of an animal from north side of Davis Mtns that bears allot of resemblance to your creation.
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However…..Good news/bad news.
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Good News =
I have more pics of animals from the local of the one you like.

Bad News =
I’m currently out of the country for 2 weeks, so have no access to the files.
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I’ll email to you the location data on this animal and pick this thread up in two weeks… Sorry..

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Regards, Bill McGighan

>>Wow, Terry, That little snake is neat.
>>What is the dorsal blotch count (snout to vent) on that animal comparing to intermontana and meahllmorum?
>>I have a pic of an animal from north side of Davis Mtns that bears allot of resemblance to your creation.
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>>However…..Good news/bad news.
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>>Good News =
>>I have more pics of animals from the local of the one you like.
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>>Bad News =
>>I’m currently out of the country for 2 weeks, so have no access to the files.
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>>I’ll email to you the location data on this animal and pick this thread up in two weeks… Sorry..
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>>Regards, Bill McGighan

Bill, I'm not exactly sure, but I think the blotch count on the pictured thornscrub emory is about 44. I need to get better pix.

In Vaughan et al (1996), the blotch count is given for E. g. emoryi (including intermontana) at about 46 ave. For meahllmorum it is about 38-39 ave, depending on sex, etc.

Here's a pic of the two babies with the other thornscrub emory in the foreground....

This baby was darker.

I think the ave blotch count for intermontana might be higher than for emoryi alone, thus the fairly high count on these babies. I look forward to your return and some more pix.

Cheers...TC
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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Terry I like that little snake!
Todd Hughes

Todd, I kinda like those little snakes too. The natural intergrades from West TX are very nice in a much more natural way.

I just read, in Schulz ('96), that Smith et al (1994), after creating the "meahllmorum" ssp, that meahllmorum has 45.5, or less, dorsal blotches, and that emoryi (including intermontana) has 45, or more. So, my cross, at 44 blotches, is right near that medium zone and actually falls in with meahllmorum.

Let me tell you part of the reason I like these intergrades from West TX. "Intermontana" is one of the most distinct of the western forms of guttatus. The meahllmorum from se. TX are also very disctinct. "Intermontana" is the smallest and some of the meahllmorum are the largest. The intergrade gives you something inbetween. It's also inbetween in other ways, such as girth, color, pattern, etc.

When I crossed "intermontana" and meahllmorum (Brazos Island) I was trying to get the best from both of those ssps. I would like to compare the results to some w/c from W. TX too. Thanks for reading...

Terry

Bill nice subocs and a neat report with scenary, thanks! Just got back from Black gap myself and had no rat snake luck whatsoever! Guess I'll just hang on to the big boy!
Todd Hughes

Thanks Todd,
Every time I see that monster of yours, I'm impressed again.
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I don't usually harvest a suboc over 30 inches cause of the baggage they carry, but I made an an exception for this female.
I'm glad I did because she agressively eats rat pups!
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Thanks Bill, I couldn't pass this fellah up, although he has been a trial to feed! A few mice then a fast, a few gerbils, then a fast, now he wants only fuzzy mice and ten at a sitting! i tried a bat, (he freaked) and a cliff swallow, (he ate it but not another). I am glad he will shut down soon so I can prepare the smorgasbord upon his awakening, lol! I must say that this is the most inquisitive and gentle snake I have ever had, he comes out to see what's up when I come into the room. He has free reign of the room, and has a few spots he has claimed, a high hide and he basks in the daytime on the window ledge. Learn somethin' new every day!
Todd Hughes