Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some say gray rat others fox or gopher I live in west central Illinois found in backyard I have other pics in photo gallery or go to jgrafton.photosite.com

I would have to say that is a black ratsnake, P.(or E.) o. obsoleta.

~~Greg~~

65465
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
4.3.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Everglades Rat Snakes
1.0.0 Baird's Rat Snake
0.1.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
2.0.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
0.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo
0.0.2 Northern Ringnecks

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
1.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
0.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

>>Some say gray rat others fox or gopher I live in west central Illinois found in backyard I have other pics in photo gallery or go to jgrafton.photosite.com
>>
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Juvenile black ratsnakes & fox snakes are very similar . Both species are grey w/black blotches when they hatch. They also both have eye stripes. I think (am pretty sure) this is a fox snake because of high number of small round blotches & roundish head. Time will tell.

PB

Thank you, After reviewing hundreds of snake pics,and comparing them to the adult snakes I usually find in my area I'm inclined to go with a fox snake also,plus black rat juveniles seem to have larger heads.Does any one know how big Fox snakes get?The biggest I've found have been around 4-4 1/2 feet.

The fastest way to resolve this one is to count the ventral scutes..on the belly only, not the tail. Obsoleta has 221 or more, vulpina 216 or fewer. Easiest way is probably to use a shed skin..a lot less stress on the snake & more accuracy. Please let us know what you find. Thanks.

~~Greg~~

Thanks Greg I threw away the last shed but am expecting another one any day now. The only problem is with two heads & necks I don't think I can get an accruate count. With this deformaty I don't know if it will mean any thing anyway.I've heard young snakes of certain breeds are hard to ID but, I'll give it a try. THANK YOU

Fun find! If you'll do as Greg suggests, you should have your answer. Easiest with a shed skin, but from the looks of your photo album, the snake is used to being handled! Pick a head (or do each) and start counting with the first wide belly scales that begin right after the smaller chin scales and count all the way down and stop at the vent, excluding the tail scales. Anything around 218 or less should be a fox snake.

My first and strongest impression is of a black rat snake, but some of your photos give the impression of that rounded top of the head and blunt snout of a fox snake.

Let us know!

-Joan

Has anyone thought of checking the venter? Is the belly yellowish with rectangular blotches...(Fox) or is it blotched or mostly grey with blotches (obsoleta)?

Might be easier to take a look at that than counting scales.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

n/m
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

Thank you Frank I'll go take a look right now.

Here are a couple of belly photos, right after fresh shed

Thank you Every one, Here is a pic of an adult I picked up off the road 2 weeks ago and put down a ground squirrel hole in my yard. Besides Garters and Eastern browns, This is the kind of snake I usually find in my area. I thought maybe a pic of an adult could help?

>>Thank you Every one, Here is a pic of an adult I picked up off the road 2 weeks ago and put down a ground squirrel hole in my yard. Besides Garters and Eastern browns, This is the kind of snake I usually find in my area. I thought maybe a pic of an adult could help?
>>

Well, we all know THAT'S a fox snake. But you also have black rat snakes in your area.

Rats!!

okay, here's the real deal on what your snake is, although the Black Ratsnake does live in the same range, You are also well in the southern range of the Western Fox Snake,formerly(Elaphe vulpina vulpina), in my opinion that is what you have. One simple little test for you to do to positively identify it,....turn your snake over, and look at it's belly,....if it is heavily checkered(like a Cornsnake)then it is a Fox Snake,....if it isn't checkered, it's a neonate Black Ratsnake. I think you will find some checkering ......let us know what you find.....................D. Mong

I sent a shed to a Prof. at Harvard,he identified it as a male Fox snake.