Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I thought this might interest you all.

My puppy was bitten on top of his head by a diamondback rattlesnake in west TX at the end of Aug.
He had already begun the vaccines. According to the manufacturer they're supposed to get a series of 2 vaccines, then get boosters once a year. He got bitten after he'd had the first vaccine but not the second.
The bite swelled up to about the size of mosquito bite in less than 2 hours after he was bitten. He was at the vet in less than 2 hours after he was bitten too so treatment began right away. (he'd have been there sooner but they were closed for lunch)
The vets said they believe the vaccine was working or he'd have been in worse shape when they saw him. They said in all the dogs they've treated who've gotten the vaccine, only one had a lot of swelling but that dog didn't get treatment for more than 24 hours after it was bitten.
I've had another dog bitten before the vaccine was available & he did fine with treatment but he did have the major swelling & it took a little more than week for him to get over it. With this puppy having had 1 vaccine he never had any major swelling, the mosquito bite sized bump on his head went away on the day the vet treated him.. that was that. He was fine from then on.

Apparently this vaccine did work for my puppy, I'm happy about that because we do see rattlesnakes most often in the fall & it's not unusual for them to be around our house from time to time. We want the dog to be safe. He's an indoor dog, he just was unlucky enough to run into the snake when he was outside sniffing around the yard.

The manufacturer says you need to start the vaccines over again if they're bitten in between the series of 2 so we've started it again.

btw no snakes were harmed during this episode. We're big believers in not killing rattlesnakes just because we see one. In fall it's common for young rattlesnakes to be seen passing through- not taking up residence in our yard, just passing through.
We haven't seen another since this happened so ya know I'm not gonna worry about seeing anymore until next fall.
Thought this might interest you.. so there's the story.

Thanks for sharing that. Glad your puppy made it through alright. I like your attitude.

~~Greg~~

The vets in our area are also promoting this vaacine which does appear to be effective. Thanks for sharing this story with us.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
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Conservation through Education

Thank you Greg. The people here on this board seem to be the only ones on Earth who get this.
I work in the vet field, (not as a vet) but even in that field I can't get people to understand why rattlesnakes need to live & not be killed just because ya see one.
I am so tired of hearing "I'd capture the snake right after I cut it's head off."
Yeah well I wouldn't.
I suppose those people step on spiders & anything else they don't like too. They just don't understand that everything has a purpose & it's not up to me to kill an animal just because I didn't bother to think about why they exist.
Hello we don't have wild packrats living on our property anymore. That was a problem when we first moved here.
We don't have snakes lingering either because they ate the food & moved on.
We don't have dead birds or other dead animals around either because we didn't poison the rats.
Anyway.... I could get up on that soapbox & go all day but I'm sure I'd be preaching to the choir.

Glad to hear your pup is doing okay.

I do snake removals, and I always tell people who have dogs to get them vaccinated. This year we have had a LOT of rattlesnake calls. A number of bites as well...the vaccine seems to work pretty well.

One thing about your dogs bite...it could be that he recieved a very small envenomation as well, which would result in minimal symptoms (combined with the vaccine, even less). Do you know how large the snake was that bit him? The reason I mention this, is that a puppy, even a vaccinated one, would likely show more severe symptoms than an adult dog, due simply to body size and weight. In any case, it is a moot point...your dog is okay, the snake is okay, you are okay. All good to hear

>>>One thing about your dogs bite...it could be that he recieved a very small envenomation as well, which would result in minimal symptoms (combined with the vaccine, even less). Do you know how large the snake was that bit him? The reason I mention this, is that a puppy, even a vaccinated one, would likely show more severe symptoms than an adult dog, due simply to body size and weight. In any case, it is a moot point...your dog is okay, the snake is okay, you are okay. All good to hear.
>>

You know we did think about that.. the dog may not have gotten a huge dose of venom to begin with but there was no way to know for certain other than leave him untreated & see if he got worse when the vets were about to leave town for a week. Since they were leaving town the vets went ahead & treated him as if he had gotten a good sized dose of venom just to be safe.

The snake was small maybe 12 inches long if even that.. this time of year that's what we always see, small ones with just a nub on the end of the tail. I assume that's because they've just left the nest for the first time? You'd know that better than I would.
Whatever the case, I'm just really glad too that it was a happy ending.

I had no clue a vaccination was available for this, I assume it covers most crots or? If there is something like this available for dogs, would it be that far fetched for someone to produce something along the same lines for humans?

Imagine the clinical tials to get it approved...

It is specific to atrox.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

http://dnavaccine.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1413

The above link explains what we are trying to do. Tim Friede

As someone who was bitten by a Florida Diamondback, I find it pretty incredible there could be any kind of vaccine powerful enough to turn rattlesnake bites into mosquito bites. I did notice tremendous effect upon receiving antivenin, but I still swelled up and (my leg) turned black. (and gold, green, purple, red, blue-etc) You telling me this vaccine works THAT GOOD??
I remember a Seinfeld episode where Kramer is taking dog medicine, hmmm....

::cough cough::
I remember Kramer & his cough lol.

The point of the vaccine is to lessen the effects of the venom but the dogs still need treatment when they are bitten.
The mosquito bite sized mark is how he looked in less than 2 hours.. and like we said it's possible that he didn't get a huge dose of venom in the first place.
My other dog who was bitten 5 years ago before the vaccine was available was waaay more swollen than that after 2 hours. The day he was bitten I didn't have to be at work at 11AM, so I was gonna sleep in. Then he woke me up at 8AM but I wasn't aware that husband had let him outside at 6AM so he woke me up with a swollen face & I had no clue what was wrong with him. He didn't get into the vet until after 9AM.. so it was at least 3 hours before he was treated after the bite happened.
That dog for sure got a full bite with full dose & even with antivenin he still looked about the way you did in less than 8 hours.
Then there's also the thing about dogs.. when they are bitten on the head where there's not much "meat" on them they tend to live through a bite no matter what. If they're bitten on the body where all their organs tend to be, they have a much higher chance of dying.
They're just tougher than we are I guess?
Whatever the case, at 25 bucks per vaccine, I think it's worth it to vaccinate the dog.. just to be as safe as we can be.

I can remember when a 10 cc vial of antivenin was $25. Here's hoping that vaccine stays low priced & that they can make it for more than just atrox.

~~Greg~~