Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am trying to identify a snake I found under my car last night. Is there anyway to upload or attach a picture?

I have been told it is a copperhead or a juvenile cottonmouth. I don't beleive it is either, however I do live on a lake and cottonmouths have been found here before.

Hoping to find a way to attach a picture. Can anyone help if this is possible?

Thanks,
tk

Here is a picture. I figured out how to upload.

You are correct, it is not a Copperhead, but is a harmless Yellow Ratsnake.

For some reason, more harmless snakes are mis-identified as Copperheads than any other (at least in the east). As the colorful name implies, all Copperheads have coppery-red heads.

Nice find!

Regards,

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

>>but is a harmless Yellow Ratsnake.

Unless the color balance is way off, I would actually go with Everglades Ratsnake or an intergrade of glades and yellow (they're almost all intergrades around here).

Either way, tot he original poster, no question it's a ratsnake. Not even close to a copper or cotton. (I have coppers, cottons and 3 ratsnakes similar to this one).

>>>>but is a harmless Yellow Ratsnake.
>>
>>Unless the color balance is way off, I would actually go with Everglades Ratsnake or an intergrade of glades and yellow (they're almost all intergrades around here).

LOL - I knew it!

Yeah prolly an intergrade - pretty one at that.

Cheers!

JPD
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

I will agree that it is an "intergrade" if one of y'all can tell me the difference between a yellow & an Everglades. Remember that color alone is not a valid reason for sub-classification.

To the original poster, the attached website may help you in the future with identifying any dangerous snakes in Florida. BTW, in central Florida, you are well south of the southern limit of the range of the copperhead. Also well north of the Everglades.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

>>I will agree that it is an "intergrade" if one of y'all can tell me the difference between a yellow & an Everglades. Remember that color alone is not a valid reason for sub-classification.

So, you think I should have answered the original question with one of the following:
1) Black Ratsnake (Pantherophis obsoletus)
2) A stripey, orangish color variant of the Black Ratsnake (Pantherophis obsoletus)
3) It's whatever subspecies is considered valid this month, ask again in a few months and we'll give you a different answer.
4) Count the belly scales, subcaudal scales and labial scales and check to see if the anal scale is devided and how strongly keeled the scales are and get back to us at, which time we will deate endlessly about what it is.

As far as I know, the word "intergrade" implies noting about the level of classification of the two (or more) lines/groups involved.

By the way, what would you call it?

>>Also well north of the Everglades.

My 15 year old field guide shows the Everglades Ratsnake up to a bit north of Lake Okeechobee. I ASSUME that only includes "pure" Everglades and not the range of "intergrades" in surrounding areas. Either way, I think you could call that Central Florida.

If the original poster hasn't gotten bored and left already, could you be more specific about where you live?

I would call it a yellow ratsnake and leave it at that. Doesn't really look too "intergrade-ish" to me...author said "central FL.", so I'd go with yellow...
But hey, I'm still dealiing with Elaphe obsoleta vs. Pantherophis alleghaniensis

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Larry: I really did not mean any disrespect. It's just that I remember back when rossalleni was first described, & was flummoxed then as to the valid reasoning for it. I even went so far as to ask Ross's son one day what the real deal was, & he was as perplexed as I was. The "Everglades" is a beautiful deep orange, but I have yet to see proof that they breed true, or if a pair of deep orange snakes from well within the rossalleni range will produce all orange offspring, or if some of the litter is yellow. If the latter is the case, I see no reason for the sub-classification, but what the heck do I know?

~~Greg~~

Funny, a friend used to call 'em "pink rats" sometimes and it stuck with me for years. Most were orange of course.
I remember Ross too. He and my friend didn't always se eye to eye... they were both trappers at one time...
Anyway, I have never been too convinced of their sub status, but can tell you that way back in the '70s (haha) we'd breed the deepest orange/pink to each other and get screaming babies. Right out of the egg.
Almost none like it anywhere these days. Even in the hobby.

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

>>Larry: I really did not mean any disrespect.

Don't worry, I'm sure my respose came across as a lot more confrontational than I meant it.

>>...but I have yet to see proof that they breed true, or if a pair of deep orange snakes from well within the rossalleni range will produce all orange offspring, or if some of the litter is yellow.

My sample size is pretty small, but out of 3 clustches from the same communal cage over a couple of years, we got two clutches that look like the OP's snake and one that looks much closer to a typical "yellow". Snakes within a clutch didn't look quite like any of the possible parents, but were virtually identical to eachother.

Thanks for the ID!

I live in Sarasota, Florida. It is on the gulf coast about 100 miles due west of the northern edge of Lake Okeechobee. It is at a slightly higher lattitude. I live on a small penisula surronded by freshwater lake on three sides. I'm sure the snake is still roaming around my property unless it can swim.

I have uploaded several additional pictures. I have attached a couple here. There is additional photos in my member's gallery folder under "tkapp".

My original post had a typo on the length. Actuall length is probally closer to 3 feet. (not 4 feet)

Thanks
-Kevin

....there are a few islands near you where the cornsnakes are as "Miami-ish" as any in s. Florida. Keep an eye out for 'em....
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

greag knows his s#!t, the snake in the pic looks nothing like an everglades rat and would have to have been found 10 miles south of the big lake to even have a chance of being an integrade...and I too live in sarasota and can tell you cottenmouths are not found commonly... and after hunting commerically for decades here, I know you have to go east to myakka or close to even find cottenmouths, the snakes you see in or around your lake are no doubt watersnakes. (harmless) JB

I live east of I-75 out Clark next to Myakka State Park.

I have been in sarasota 35 years and used to collect 100 -300 snakes a year and just so you know all venomous snakes are getting hard to find even in the unurbanized areas, I would hike off the trail in the palmettos and the tallest grassy areas looking for the florida pinesnake and only found maybe two or three rattlesnakes pr year and they were found in arcadia in recently burned areas, but pigmys and coralsnakes are pretty common in your area, but please don't concider all baby ratsnakes a pigmy rattler, if you don't see a rattle on the tail it's not venomous!and the coralsnakes nose all the way to past the eye is jet black with no other coloration as if it was dipped into black paint then comes a yellow band then red, so don't try to remember any stipid confusing ryme and just remember if red touches yellow it's a coral! JB

It may well be but then a lot of people who find these things (and I run into a lot of them at my friend's shop) find it easier to remember the "red touches yellow kills a fellow--red touches black--friend of Jack" better than a more technical explanation.

Rhymes are more easily remembered and hence more effective.

As to the Glades thing, I have caught orange snakes that look very much like the yellow first pictured on this thread in Gainsville. I stand with those who feel the "Everglades Ratsnake" is not a valid taxon.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>"red touches yellow kills a fellow--red touches black--friend of Jack"

Alright, I'll split the difference between you and say that I think people should ONLY teach "red on yellow kill a fellow", which is easy enough to remember. At least 50% of the people I meet that were taught both rhymes can't keep them straight and they turn into "black on yellow kill a fellow" or "yellow on black friend of Jack" or something equally useless.

I always make sure I follow it up with the more important point: "if you're not absolutely sure, don't mess with it and you won't have a problem".

the problem I see with the stupid rymes is that a conciderable number of kids i know that were tought the proper ryme but remember it going " yellow touches red you can pat'em on th' head" and also have heard "black on red your dead". the fact is adults remember the correct method but kids get it confused too often. the best method to teach kids is the black nose thats round like your thumb, not a pointed or red nose! JB

The rhymes are all too easy to screw up. In my talks, I tell kids that if the warning colors on the traffic light touch, it is a coral. Even kids way too young to drive know yellow & red from a traffic light.

~~Greg~~

Trafic light colors....Unless they are color blind like my brother..(LOL)..ironically he became a lawyer...and a pro photographer. He still can't recognise red or green.

People can screw anything up. some people call brown or orange -red.
Barring those examples mentioned above that definitely do not rhyme least those with a sense of rhyme usually remember it correctly.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."