Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What size silk worms should I feed my 7mo old jackson? 1/2" 1"

I was planning to start a colony as well. any tips?

-thanks all!

i have been able to feed any size silkies to my chams, but you should make sure that they are no larger than your chams head, length and widthwise.

as far as raising them....

Would they be or in a tupperware container at the bottom of my cham's cage? the temps are about the same..except they need a bit more warmth...

I figure if I keep it clean and secure that it would be a fine place..since jack never goes down past the bottom 1/3 of his habitat. I would be worried about any airborne diseases though

thanks for the answer.

-adam

i have tried raising them, you can put them in the bottom, except they do need to be uncovered for a while everyday so that they can dry out, mold is very bad for them. also if that is down there, eventually your cham will go check it out. mine did, the container got knocked over, and the cham fell.

I have had some success raising silkworms.

Here's some tips to consider: I don't recommend tupperware simply because when they are ready to pupate (which is crucial to the breeding process), their silk won't stick to the plastic walls so they just lose all of their silk without cocooning. You can keep them in tupperware, but when they start to glass (turn beige/brownish) you should move them to an egg carton or box where their silk will stick allowing them to cocoon.

As far as feeding size goes, you can feed chams silkies that are bigger than their heads since they chew-up and digest easily. I would say that 1.5" is just fine for most chams. Older and more mature chams can handle them to full size with no problem.

As far as breeding goes, once they make their cocoons, put all of the cocoons together in a shoe box. A few weeks later, the moths emerge and they quickly mate. I usually like to take the mating pairs and place them in a small deli container (with perforations). Once they are done mating, the female will quickly lay eggs which will be spread throughout the plastic container sticking firmly to the walls. You can hold onto those eggs and a few months down the road they will hatch giving ou a fresh colony

By the way, after mating, the moths have only a few days left to live since they are unable eat. They make ideal for morsels for chams of just about any size.
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2.0 Ambanjas 6 mos. - LESTER & SHOGO

Masterplan, that was wonderful information about the silkies. Do you feed them silkworm chow or do you have your own mulberry trees?

Marilyn

I'm very blessed to have an abundance of Mulberry trees just down the street. That is key.

I have heard that some folks have a difficult time rearing a colony of silkies on the Chow (is this true or untrue for you guys out there?). It's great to feed them and is a very sufficient replacement for real leaves. I mean, they certainly grow large eating the chow! But I have read that they don't build very strong cocoons if raised on the chow resulting in an elevated death rate when pupating. But, heck, if that's all that's available, it's defintely worth doing.

I just wish I could get the Silkworm Chow Recipe as autumn is approaching and my leaf supply will run out soon...

(if you have the Chow recipe, I promise to not share it! Please e-mail it to:
thehibs@usa.com
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2.0 Ambanjas 6 mos. - LESTER & SHOGO

you could always get a vacum sealer and seal and or freeze some leaves, as a supplement with the chow during tyhe winter, ....hope that helps,,, dave

But would the leaves still be edible after being frozen? Wouldn't this change the consistency of the leaves and would the silkies still eat them?

Marilyn

Someone that has silkworms should do a test to see. If I hadn't ran out of silkworms, I'd test them.

Ww

I get them in and they usually only last a week or two and they stop growing or grow slowly and die. I feed fresh mulberry leaves and chow sometimes. Right before they die they get very lethargic and it seems like they ooze a liquid of some sort.
The guy at Mulberry farms could not figure it out. He says they can be prone to a virus that only they get. Have you had any trouble with this. Also what temp do you keep them at and how do you heat them?

@anson,

I know exactly what is happening...when they beome lethargic and brownish, they are getting ready to cocoon. The liquid is the final sign that they need to spin. This stuff is emitted by almost all silkies jusst as they are about to spin (little bit of trivi: it's also the same stuff they use as moths to burn a hole through the cocoon to emerge).

Make sure you:

a) are keeping them in a paper, cardboard, or eggcrate container so they can stick to the corners when cocooning,
b) make sure that you are providing the sufficient container size. It should fit all of them without them being on top of one another. If the container you are using is not large enough, add another shoebox (shoeboxes are perfect, by the way.
c) Don't cover the container. Ventilation is key and also prevents mold and excess moisture from building-up. They don't have anywhere to go and rarely will they venture outside of the box. It also doesn't hurt to get them a little indirect sunlight every now and then.
d) Make sure you keep their container relatively clean. I try to move them every two weeks or so just to throw out the old poop. They do poop quite a bit!
e) make sure you are feeding them adequately. What I do is make sure that every worm has a shot at at least two leaves per day. I do this by ripping the leaves in a few large slices and placing the pieces on top of the entire group. I just make sure they everyone is covered with a leaf at feeding time.
f) Rinse your leaves! Your leaf supply may be infected with pesticides. I fill up a sink with water and soak the leaves for about a half hour to hour. I also wash my hands with anti-bacterial soap and let the soapy water soak with the leaves. I don't know if it works, but I figure I have had succes in the past, so I have kept the same routine.
g) Last but not least, save a few of your strongest silkies for your breeding colony. I pick out one to two heallthy, strong, white silkies every few days or so and place them in a special box. This box gets more food and better treatment. in this way, I grow very large and strong silkworms to cocoon. This group has kept my colony going.

Wow, sorry for the long post! I got carried away...I hope these tips help. Let me know if you turn it around.
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2.0 Ambanjas 6 mos. - LESTER & SHOGO

master,

Thanks for the awesome post!
These are the things that make this forum so valuable.

Thanks for the compliment! Glad I can help...

I was re-reading my lengthy posts, and I realized there was a few more things I meant to mention: One thing is that I try to keep around 15-25 in the "special box." That seems to be a pretty good number of silkworms to raise separately in order to keep the whole colony going.

I keep all of the rest relatively small to make them good feeders. It's kind of an art form, but you get used to a feeding schedule that keeps them *just* healthy enough to live while not getting so big they want to cocoon. In fact, I have kept the majority in my colony for the past 6-7 weeks and most are still only 1" to 1.75" max. Perfect size! And most still show no signs of going into a pupate mode.

Remember, the way to make them cocoon is to take away their food. Meaning, if they are underfed, they will get glassy and try to cocoon before they are ready. Not good.

By the way, they can't be overfed. They will just keep feeding and feeding until they force themselves to cocoon. These are the ones you want to breed in order to keep the colony going.

Man---enough out of me! Sorry for the lengthy posts! I just get crazy when it comes to Silkie-Rearing!
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2.0 Ambanjas 6 mos. - LESTER & SHOGO

Do you refrigerate the eggs? What color are they, fertileinfertile?
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~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

Do you refrigerate the eggs? What color are they, fertileinfertile?
Do you have to use an incubator?
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~~Tania~~
(and Jake, Peter, and Mary) the lizard family.

...you just knew the luna lady had to chime in here All of master's advice was great I would only add that cleaning their poop DAILY is of greatest importance - especially as they grow! Any moisture (that you don't see) invades their frass (poop) and bacterial and viral enemies can arise (ooo- that sounded so dramatic!). Almost all Lepidoptera have their "own" virus as well as some general. The one most common, with even the greatest care is NPV (Nuclear Polyhedrosis Virus). This is what got 11 of my 12 cecropia last year – devastating – and you can imagine how I obsess over them!. OK, you won’t be quite as devastated when your silkies die, but surely frustrated.

As for the "ooze" before they spin this is actually what is referred to as "clearing their gut." Sort of like making one last trip to the bathroom before a long car trip! LOL! Although their frass is generally firm and tight the final one is runny. ALL Lepidoptera larva do this. A small correction: the fluid produced before eclosion (emerging from cocoon) is an enzyme that is released called cocoonase (makes me think of a cocktail – “May I have a cocoonase on the rocks, please?) that breaks down the sericin which binds the silk.

OK, that’s your entomology lesson for the day!

lele

p.s. if you can post a pic of one of these after exuding liquid I could probably tell you if it is dying from a virus or simply ready to move onto it's next life stage.

They get wet all over their back ends. They look wet and shiny.
Then they start bending in half like they lose the ability to crawl and act normally. This has been hapenning to all size silkworms I get even tiny ones so I don't think it is that they are getting ready to cocoon.
They also get fragile like thin skinned and if you touch them their heads split open (they just pop)
Also I had bought some polyphemus (not sure of spelling) moth eggs from a guy selling them on the insect classifieds.
Don't freak out they were being raised as pets just another one of my little projects.
Well everything was going great. I got about 20 eggs and they all hatched and looked like cute fuzzy headed aliens. They ate and started growing and all of a sudden they all died. I never figured out what I did wrong but they were in the room where the silkworms first started dying. Also my crickets are in there with no problems and so are my hornworms.
The hornworms I keep are also caled a hawkmoth for whatever reason I feed those and the silkworms to the chams and don't have a problem with it but I was upset when all my polyphemus catterpillars died.
I am also intrigued by praying mantis (I want one of those bad and am thinking about getting an eggcase from insectlore) do you get their catalog?

Ye gods! I though I was about the only person in the world to collect caterpillars and raise them up just to see them emerge from cocoons/pupae mostly just for the pleasure of it. *jumping for joy!* I am about to embark on the raising of silkworms, they were selling them at the last Expo in Shelbyville, Ky. but I was hesitant to buy some because I didn't know diddly about their husbandry. Times have changed thanks to this great thread. Question though...around this time of year the hawkmoths start laying their eggs on my tomato plants. About every larva that I have found over the last few years has been infested with those little wasp cocoons. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, if the 'pillars are infested, are they still safe to feed to the chams?

Marilyn

>>They get wet all over their back ends. They look wet and shiny.
>>Then they start bending in half like they lose the ability to crawl and act normally. This has been hapenning to all size silkworms I get even tiny ones so I don't think it is that they are getting ready to cocoon.

***It definitely sounds like NPV (or similar), esp. bending in the middle. When cats are feeding on trees the cue that they died from this virus is that they hang in an inverted “v”

>>They also get fragile like thin skinned and if you touch them their heads split open (they just pop)

***I posted the rest of on the B/M forum.

lele

Masterplan,
How long can you refrigerate the eggs? Do you refrigerate before or after they turn dark?

Greg