Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need some help. I have had two Female Veiled's in the past 6 months that have both layed there eggs and then within a few days after died. Is this normal, I would not think so.
What could I be doing wrong.

Set up
1.1 veiled's, in same cage all the time.
Large open air cage.
24" UVA/UVB flor bulb
75 watt basking bulb
Auto mister. set to mist 8 times per day for 15 sec.
feed dusted crickets ocassional pinkies and wax worms.

My daughter is very upset that HER cham dies everytime it has eggs.

Eggs are in the incubator so hopefull they will hatch.

No, in my experience it's not normal. I really can't critique your husbandry, not knowing the ages/history etc. of your chams, but [bold]"1.1 veiled's, in same cage all the time"[/bold]

Geez...first time I've posted here in ages and my fingers get stupid!!

Anyway...as I was saying. Your first mistake is keeping your chams together in the same cage at all times. Chams should always have separate enclosures and brought together only briefly for breeding purposes only. It's likely your females are suffering the effects of long-term stress brought about by sharing quarters with your male and the taxing process of egg production and laying are the final "blows" so to speak.

First of all...as has been said already...keeping two veiled chameleons together in the same cage is very stressful and almost always leads to the death of one and the mating of a female when she is possibly still working on her own development. They almost always reach sexual maturity before they attain full growth. In the wild I have heard of many females hanging on until they laid their eggs and then dying...but its often from old age.

BTW...they shouldn't even see each other unless they are being mated.

You said..."I have had two Female Veiled's in the past 6 months that have both layed there eggs and then within a few days after died. Is this normal, I would not think so"...no, its not normal.

You asked..."What could I be doing wrong"...I need more information to tell you this...and even then I may not have an answer.
How old were the females when they died? When you put them together with the male?
Basking temperature?
Ambient temperature?
Do you gutload the insects? With what?
You said you dust the insects...with what (brands too)?
Do you offer the chameleons greens, veggies, some fruit?
Did either female show signs of MBD? (Inability to hold the body up off the branches, soft casque bones, rubbery jaw, crooked legs, what looks like an extra elbow, etc.)

You said..."My daughter is very upset that HER cham dies everytime it has eggs"...I can certainly understand that.

I feel very sad for your chameleons. mostly because if you googled any chameleon website they all clearly state that veiled chameleons, let alone any species of chemeleon, should NEVER be housed together in the same enclosure. They should never even see eachother it can be so stressfull.

I have a male and two female veiled chameleons in totally seperate rooms of my house, just so they can't see eachother.

egg laying is very taxing on a fragile chameleons body. female chameleons should not be bred before the age of 1 year. if they are younger, their bodies aren't done growing and all their nourishment goes to egg production and they become malnourised.

over time stress can kill chameleons. stress of being in the presence of a male, plus the stress of egglayinng on top of probably not the best husbandry methods killed your chameleons.

i am a teacher and here is a good way to interact with your children and learn new facts. show her how to google "veiled chameleons" online. browse all the diffrenet web pages out there. go to the libary with her and check out books on chameleons. have your daughter compile a list of facts about chameleons and write it into a little paper, care sheet or a home-make book on chameleons, example : "facts on chameleons" (depending on her age). you will learn how to properly care for them, she will learn their care too, she will also enchance her research, study, reading and writing skills. also, your future pets will gain because they will recieve the proper care. everyone wins!!! This works great with all age groups of children. I suggest everyone doing this with your children BEFORE any new pet is brought into the home. That way everyone is has researched and prepared for them.

I agree with what everyone said and I would say one of the main problems is cohabitation. It’s too bad that you dint take the time to research – keeping true chams separate from one another and out of sight of one another IS fundamental.

I also want to point out that your mist cycle is way, way, way too short. 2 minutes a day is a huge problem unless you are hand misting on top of that – dehydration is the number one killer of chams. My mister runs for about 40 minutes a day – at least 15 minutes a shot. Many chams need to be stimulated to drink and that can take up to 10 minutes of misting to do that. I also hand mist twice a day until they drink their fill.

-roo

I appreciate all the input you guys and gals have given me. I assure you I was only doing what I was told was correct. The breeder (quite large breeder)I got the chams from told me that I could keep the two together all the time. And as far as misting I was told to just hand mist them twice a day. So I figured the auto mister was misting them more than that.

thanks for all you info. Google here I come

Jack

It might have been ONLY the stress of the two being together that led to the problems but it would be worth checking your husbandry just to make sure that there weren't any other reasons too (which is part of the reason I asked you the questions.

Stress, probably some dehydration and nutritional problems but without more detail we can't know. Without a necropsy you'll never know for sure. Just because a breeder is "big" doesn't mean "good". A big volume business may not notice or care how long their individual females live so what is acceptable loss for them might be "normal". If your setup isn't huge, the two chams definitely stress each other constantly. Doesn't sound like you got good advice. Don't bother with Google...links to the best sites on chams are right here at the top of this forum.