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genetic question....

xNeViNx Oct 22, 2006 02:10 AM

i just picked up 1.2 kenyans because i got out of them a lil while ago, and wanted to keep them again. all 3 are 100% het albion, and snow paradox. so my question is about the snow paradox... does that mean i will also produce snow along with the snow paradox, or just the snow paradox? and does any one have any pics of the snow paradox?
thanx
nevin
....ill have pics soon
-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

Replies (10)

xNeViNx Oct 22, 2006 09:07 PM

sisters, dbl het, albino/snow-paradox

male, dbl het, albion/snow-paradox

-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

keego73 Oct 23, 2006 07:03 PM

My thoughts aren't totally organized for this response, so I'm not sure where the best starting point is, so here goes. First off, in Kenyan sand boas, there are two types of albino traits. The first is the standard amelanism that is common in many species. The second type is the paradox albino. This trait is an amelanistic mutation that also causes the animal to have black splotches. These two are incompatible, but both are simple recessive traits. The other common morph in KSB's is anerythrism, such is your male in the bottom picture.
Snow, on the other hand, is not a single simple recessive trait. Snow is a combination of anerythrism and one of the two albino traits. Standard "snow" is an animal that is homogenous for albino and anery. "Paradox snow" is an animal that is homogenous for paradox albino and anery. Something to note is that if an animal is marketed as "het snow" is usually means that it is anery and het albino or albino and het for anery. The same technique applies to paradox snow as well.
So, back to your animals. To say what they are with more confidence, I'd like to talk to who sold them to you, as the description of "het albino and snow paradox" seem incredibly unlikely. Your two females that are "dbl het, albino/snow-paradox" are probably het for paradox albino and het for anery. Your male is very unlikely to be double het. You male is homogenous anery, and probably het paradox albino. It is possible that they are "albinos" not "paradox albino" traits, and that they are "het snow" not "het paradox snow."
Assuming they are all het for paradox albino, your outcome of breeding would have genotypes in the round abouts of: 12.5% paradox snow, 25% anery het paradox albino, 12.5% anery, 12.5% paradox albino het anery, 25% double het for paradox albino and anery, 12.5% het anery. The appearance of these animals will be 12.5% paradox snow, 37.5% anery, 12.5% paradox albino, 37.5% normal. There will also be no way of knowing for sure which animals are hets and which aren't, as there are no marker traits on the hets.
If this was all stuff you knew, sorry. To answer your direct question, if they're het albino het snow(aka het anery), you would produce snows, but if they're het paradox albino het paradox snow(again, het anery), you would produce paradox snows.
There are pictures up of the major KSB traits on the main forum,
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1183199,1183199

xNeViNx Oct 23, 2006 09:40 PM

the ppl i got them from are ok. i buy from them (for my self, and to resale) all the time and havent had a problem. ive seen the siblings and parents to my 3. the male is the "cusin" to the sisters. for the male, the dam was albino, and the sire was snow-paradox. the dam and sire were opposite for the females. thats how there dbl hets. i completly understand genetics, thats not the proble, i understand percentages and all. i just wasnt sure how the snow-paradox worked in the kenyans.
thanx
nevin
-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

keego73 Oct 24, 2006 05:45 AM

Oh, well yeah, paradox snow is just the name for the snow trait with paradox albino. So you could produce snows with them, but not paradox snows. From the pictures the male looks anery? If he is, then the dame in the breeding would have had to have been at least albino het anery?

keego73 Oct 24, 2006 11:15 AM

Sorry, I'm a ver sleep deprive college kid. I just read your post again and realized what all you said. With those snakes, you could produce both types of snows.

xNeViNx Oct 24, 2006 07:02 PM

hahaha, yeah i know what thats like. no problems. but thank you. and do you know wheres is a good place to learn about sand boa morphs, and phases?
thanks again
nevin
-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

keego73 Oct 24, 2006 07:31 PM

KSB traits... there's really no comprehesive source. There are a ton of traits out there that aren't very common, some that have been shown to be genetics without any understanding of the genetics, and others that there is simply no understanding of. There are all the complex traits from selective breeding like flame (which is from an isolated southern population in Dodoma), nuclear, and high oranges. There are several lines of stripes. There is a huge mess of rufescen related traits that you'd be best e-mailing Brian Emanuel about. There are some unproven piedbald animals, as well as several hypomelanistic animals out there that, as far as I know, haven't been proven either. Then there are the simple recessive anery, albino, paradox albino, and the duel simple recessive snows. There have been a few attempts on the main forum to get compelete lists of morphs, but they tend to fade to the bottom before they get close to complete. Nothing commands the prices of ball pythons, nor are KSB's able to reproduce as much as corns, so the less common morphs tend to be more known by those that know the breeders then the general public.

xNeViNx Oct 27, 2006 11:24 PM

cool. thank you very much. i wanted an albino KSB, and just figured i might as well make a couple bucks off of it as well. cause i do breed most of the animals that are in my list in my sig. i never breed kenyans befor, ive only kept them.
thank you for your time
nevin
-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

xNeViNx Oct 27, 2006 11:32 PM

the sand boas i had befor have never had a problem shedding, one of my smaller ones has a nice patch of dry shed on her tail. what can i do to get rid of those? and is there anything i can do to prevent that? my other ones have just shed there skin with out any problem.
thanks again
nevin
-----
AIM- McChompinator

green tree pythons
green anacondas
yellow anacondas
jungle carpet pythons
brazilian rainbow baos
reticulated pythons
columbian boa constrictors
amazon tree boas
kenyan sand boas
ball pythons
blood pythons
burm pythons
tamed tokay geckos
leopard geckos(all morphs, cept a couple)
crested geckos
bearded dragons
mali uromastyxs
sudanese uromastyxs
poison dart frogs
albino pacman frog
african fat tailed geckos
jacksons chameleon
giant daygeckos
standings daygeckos
satanic leaftail geckos
corn snakes
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
4 cats- max the fat pimp dog-cat(rip)
1 miniture mutt-brutis

all ive got is insane

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

keego73 Oct 28, 2006 06:32 PM

For shedding, I've never found that the low humidity that so many people talk about is horrible. I tend to aim for around 70-80%. At any point that there is extra shed, you can use a lot of the same tricks for other herps. You can soak them in a moist towel, put in a humidity box for a few days, ect, ect... They are pretty hardy animals, so I doubt there are any shedding tricks out there that can't be used on KSBs.

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