Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been keeping snakes for two years now, but I've raised them from hatchlings (or in one case a yearling), so they're just now getting bigger and I'm running into an unanticipated problem. The liquid part of each snake's bowel movement travels pretty far because newspaper substrate doesn't absorb any of the liquid. So, when I have to change the paper, almost one whole side of the cage floor is wet, and therefore the underside of the hide box is wet, too. I'm worried about bacteria. I really feel like I should be changing hides as often as I change paper, but I can't imagine where I'm going to get enough boxes that are the right size. I'm thinking about either switching back to aspen substrate, or trying to find hides that are more easily washable than the cardboard boxes I'm using now. Anyone have any comments, suggestions?
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2.0 Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus
0.2 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus

I use newspaper also and for hides I use paper towel and toilet paper rolls.For the bigger snakes I use a real heavy walled cardboard tube that I get from a friend that is in the live bait buissness.He gets the tubes in bulk and I get a box of them from him and cut them to size with a chop saw.Whenever the tube is soiled,I change it.

There are a couple things you could do.
Get yourself a decent sized dog water bowl. They work as a bowl and hide.
Get yourself a plastic hide. Butter tub or somthing with a hole cut in it.
Quit using newspaper....My personal choice.

paper is ok..and if it is still wet when you clean it.you are cleaning often......often enough that cage doesn't stay soiled long.......wipe out wetness or clean with warm water or soap if you need to or are wanting a really clean cage.....
they'll be fine......

aspen is ok.......but with big corns I find the wetness just goes to the bottom of aspen and gets cage/box wet anyways only underneath the aspen where you can't see it......but the fruit flies can find it.......

hides.....use none......use plastic.......plastic bowls with holes cut in them......plastic food contaiers.(bought cooked chicken come in different types of plastic containers at times......I even use gallon plastic jugs....cut off at the correct height so they fit into box...yet are high enough to not be tipped over at all........I use jugs for egg laying containers........when dirty...just throw them out.......(I fill them with sphagnum moss half way....dampened....).....
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................................................it's a buyer's market......
......................................too bad I'm sellin'.......

well........

After 2 years of aspen I went back to newspaper.All that liquid from a large snakes just means your not going to get it all spot cleaning.My snakeroom/bedroom actually smells clean now.It's a heck of alot easier changing out paper than making a nasty mess with aspen.I use huge dog waterbowls that have premolded holes in the bottom.Even my large bairdi can still squeeze underneath.Petsmart has them for 3 bucks.Measure first before you go.There is one size that wont fit in a 20 long.

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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

I think I'm going to try some of the plastic hides you guys mentioned. That seems like the best solution. I don't like aspen for the same reason you guys said - the liquid just travels to the bottom, and I never felt like that was an entirely clean solution. Thanks everyone.
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2.0 Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus
0.2 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus

Excellent post!
I gave up spot cleaning years ago and use only newspaper and aspen. In doing so, the "snake room smell" is gone and my snake room smells like just about any other room in the house.

I spot cleaned for a long time using aspen, only to look underneath a cage one day and see about 10 million spots of dried up uric acid that never was cleaned and was rock hard on the bottom of the cage/sweaterbox. Using newspaper, you can be assured that you cleaned up ALL of the mess.

Very nice bairds rat by the way? Who did you get yours from?

Billy

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Genesis 1:1

Adopted him from the VA rescue clinic.
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

>>I've been keeping snakes for two years now, but I've raised them from hatchlings (or in one case a yearling)

Congrats you're doing well!

>>...they're just now getting bigger...

They will continue to do so - and their needs will change accordingly. They will need more space, larger hides, and larger food items less often - which will mean less frequent, but larger poop.

>>...unanticipated problem...{with the}...liquid part of each snake's bowel movement...newspaper substrate doesn't absorb any of the liquid...

Newspaper is like any other absorbent material, it will only absorb so much, so fast. Larger amounts of liquid will require larger amounts of adsorbent and/or longer times to be absorbed, whether its newspaper, aspen, or what have you.

There are two routes you can take - First is to use more of the absorbent you are already using; Second is to change to something that does the job better, i.e., a better absorbent (see below).

>>I'm worried about bacteria.

Bacteria are always everywhere - don't believe the ad propaganda about "ACME Cleaner kills 99.9 % of germs on contact!" - that's BS. There are literally 10s of millions of bacteria on every square inch of what we would consider clean surfaces! Killing 99.9% of 10,000,000 bacteria leaves 10,000 bacteria behind - the ones that are most resistant to the cleaner!

The point is, no snake lives in a vacuum - there are literally tons of bacteria in the wild, and yet snakes have thrived for 10s of millions of years. However, in captivity, for whatever reason, snakes do fall victim to infections. The solution is reasonable precaution and general cleanliness. Not fanatical sterility.

>>I really feel like I should be changing hides as often as I change paper...I can't imagine where I'm going to get enough boxes...

Cardboard boxes can make acceptable hides. They are cheap and disposable. If you have a ready supply of used boxes you will be fine. One thing to watch out for is what was in the box previously - I would never use a box that contained food prone to spoilage, hazardous materials like pesticides, or that might be hazardous in and of itself. Make sure to throw them out when hopelessly soiled.

>>I'm thinking about...switching back to aspen substrate...

Is aspen better than newspaper? This is an endlessly debated topic. Personally I feel they each have their uses, advantages, and disadvantages.

I like newspaper for hatchlings because there are no splinters, and it can be shredded to make nice fluffy cover. With newspaper, poops always show, so the cage can be cleaned when its needed. However, unless you have a pretty big cage, it can't be spot cleaned. Snakes like to get under newspaper, which means any mess is right on the cage bottom - however, newspaper is easily folded or trimmed to fit almost exactly. Newspaper is abundant and cheap. You can read it twice - once when you get it, and again when it goes in the cage. Its also nice to see some of the folks who show up in the paper get their just desserts!

One safety consideration for newspaper - never ever crumple up or throw away used newspaper until you a absolutely positive the snake isn't hiding in it!

Aspen looks better and can be spot-cleaned, but also can hide poop and other things that should be removed. It may contain wood mites, which are harmless but icky. It can be ingested with food, which can be a serious problem for smaller snakes, but rarely bothers large individuals. Some snakes don't seem to like it and will avoid contact with it. Some keepers have reported apparent allergic reactions, e.g., sneezing, wheezing, by snakes housed on aspen. Its messy to clean - no matter what I do I always wind up having to vacuum the floor after messing with it.

>>...or find hides that are more easily washable...

There are many commercial hides out there, some purpose made ones are quite nice - both functional and decorative. The hollow-bottom dog/cat bowls are useful. The choice is up to you!

Enjoy your snakes!

John D.
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

I switched to news paper for the same reason as others. I found I just wasn't getting all the waste out that drained to the bottom. I have 20 snakes and was making a decent mess every time I spot cleaned with aspen shavings all over the floor. My snakes now hide under the layers of newspaper instead of their hide box so maybe the hide box is no longer needed. I am also experimenting with newspaper on top of aspen for my balls that I feed in their sweater box. The newspaper prohibits injesting any aspen shavings for those that wont feed outside the container plus they hide under the paper which negates the use of a hide box.

I use anti-bacterial wipes to clean up after removing soiled news paper.

I like the anti bacterial wipes too.

Don't make the hide complicated. I put in a couple of layers of paper, then a crumpled paper, then another sheet of paper. It works great, probably more natural for the snake, and I throw it out when dirty.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents