Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm not seeing a lot of specific husbandry info on Oustalet's chameleons online. I see them for sale fairly often and know they get quite large. Is it likely that one advertised as cbb actually is? Are they as prolific as the veileds and panthers? Just curious b/c I'm planning on setting up a cham in the spring. I have a screen cage I've never used and it's killing me seeing it empty. Any help or direction would be appreciated.

In general, treat them as you would a panther chameleon (f.pardalis) with a larger enclosure. They coexist in the wild sharing the same habitats and even trees, although Oustalets are usually found at higher heights.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

As Will said, they share many of the same areas as panthers do... http://adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/foustaleti.html

I have heard of a few people producing them, so its possible that they are CBB.

Mike Monge of FLChams has both Captive Hatched and Captive Bred and Born Oustalets chameleons. I'm sure he would be more than happy to take care of your Oustalets needs as well as various other species.

Mike is a great guy, and although my location prevents me from receiving chameleons from him, I would not hesitate to if the chance came up. A stand up guy with an excellent rapport.
FL CHAMS Website

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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

Tp my experience they are among the easiest and hardy chameleons. In direct comparison I would say even easier than veileds and very much like panthers.
The only thing speciel is that even though they often do not display visible intraspecific agresion, you should keep them as seperate as you keep your panthers seperate.
Also they need a lot of space. But since they are not too agile, a cage of 3 x 3 x 5 ft does work for a single specimen.
Also -as many other chameleons- they tend to eat too much if given the possibility.
When it comes to breeding, the simplicity stops. Pairs often have to be cycled thoroughly to make sure that the male shows interest in the female once she is receptive.
Maybe becaus of this, there are less cb specimens available if one would conclude from the numbers of imports.
As for panthers, animals from different localities differ in colour and size. Also the receptivity and gravidity colours of females differ between locations.
Even though they are big chameleons, they rarely reach the mythical sizers. In fact, the larges specimen recorded ever, measured almost exactly 2 ft (its exact length was62,5 cm).
Most males reach 20 to 22 " and most females are fully grown with 15-172.

Hope that helps

Ingo

Male

Female, normal colouration

Female, showing receptive colours

Wow. Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful replies. As I said, I'm waiting til Spring in order to do more research and procure the best setup possible. I am a cham newbie, but am keeping three huge lizards (2 argentine tegus, 1 dumeril's monitor) and 1 ackie. I want something smaller but just as exotic. I do realize I'll have to keep whatever cham I get out of the big lizard room. I have the AVS book and have read most of it. Here's a question: I'm using mercury vapors with my tegus. Do you thing I should use them on the cham, or am I better off with a flourescent? I talked to someone that told me the UV is heavy from the mv's only for a short time. Also, I live in central KY. I'd like to keep the cham outside in warm months. Does the humidity in the region make this a bad idea? I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to veiled, Oustalet's, or Meller's. You guys are a lot more congenial than my bretheren on the always contentious varanid forum.

As for all heliophile reptiles, metal halides are the best choice.
In fact, Mercury vapour bulbs come second - but with quite a distance.
IMHO metal halides are a MUST for all reptiles which bask. These are the only artificial lights which allow us to provide basking spots at almost the same lightintensities as in nature (I have basking spots up to 100 000 Lux in my tanks!). You never only halfway reach this with any other light source. Moreover, metal halides do have an almost continuous spectrum.
These bulbs strongly favour optimal colouration and maximum activity levels of heliophile animals.
Once you start using them, you will see the difference. Light yield in mercury vapur bulbs is only like 30% of those of metal halides of the newest generation (ceramic emitters).
I do keep oustalets and veileds outside in my area (Germany) till night temps start to drop below 10°C without any problems.
Both species do benefit a lot from that and both can tolerate a wider range of relative humidities, as long as enough drinking water is provided.
I would not recommend a melleri as a first chameleon. WCs tend to be very delicate and CBs are not readily available. Also they are sensitive against lowe humiditiy and easily loose parts of their flaps and crest by drieness induced necrosis.
Anyhow, if you go for mellers, forget what I said about lights. This species avoids too bright lights and does better under fluorescent lights supplemented by a moderate basking spot.
Also other than for the other two listed species, significant temp drops at night are quite important for a melleris health.

Hope that helps

Ingo

http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbumPhoto.asp?userid=Ingo&album_id=48637&image_id=22

>>I would not recommend a melleri as a first chameleon. WCs tend to be very delicate and CBs are not readily available.

I second this, melleri have better odds with an experienced chameleon keeper. No matter which species you (groundskeeper) choose, it stands the best chance if you read many articles, caresheets, books, and even call/email experienced breeders. So many people in this hobby are very friendly and willing to help a serious newcomer.

>>Also they are sensitive against lowe humiditiy and easily loose parts of their flaps and crest by drieness induced necrosis.

Ingo, did you experience this firsthand in melleri? Did a vet make the diagnosis? Can you tell us more about it?

In America, melleri keepers and their vets have found necrosis causes to be fungal and bacterial, not from low humidity. In fact, excessive humidity and no dry-outs in the captive environment exacerbates a case of necrosis. The tendency to develop these skin conditions is on an individual basis, depending on stress, immune system status, and possibly diet (lack of essential vitamins, etc). In the wild or caged outdoors, all are exposed to the same opportunistic microbes present in the environment.

If you can tell me more about dry-induced necrosis, and if you have any other melleri data, I'd love to add the details to the Melleri Discovery site.

>>Anyhow, if you go for mellers, forget what I said about lights. This species avoids too bright lights and does better under fluorescent lights supplemented by a moderate basking spot.
>>Also other than for the other two listed species, significant temp drops at night are quite important for a melleris health.
>>

I also use the tube fluorescents (ReptiSun 10.0) and incandescent low wattage (50-150w) hot spots for melleri. However, when housed outdoors, they will bask in full sun for extended periods, as long as sun hits the cage. For melleri, a night drop is essential, reducing the risk of developing fatty liver disease, and increasing the odds of breeding successfully.

I am located near you groundskeeper24, and I house chams outdoors from after Easter until late October (normally). The high humidity (alternating 60-100% by night/day and rainstorms) and sun is good for them, but you must watch the heat by both day and night. If you aren't getting a night drop during the summer, they must be brought in, to cool in your home air conditioning overnight. I kept veiled, Senegal, and Meller's this way.

A CB oustie would be a great choice, I think, and the bigger the cage, the better. I've heard they can be very nice pets.
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Kristina Francis

www.melleridiscovery.com

Dear Kristina,

I have not yet kept melleris myself. I have thought about giving it a try and done quite some research in advance. But here in Europe these are rarely available. The WCs coming in are not always in best shape and CB animals are hardly seen.
Moreover, at least to me, sexing of mellers still is an issue and I do not have the capacity to start with a larger group and find out, which is which.
Also my herp room does not guarantee the degree of nightly tempdrop which I consider the most recommendable for melleris.
So I do not have any first hand experiences.
I just can tell you that several german keepers did experience problems with flaps and in some cases crests and that most of these blamed it to low humidity leading to stuck skin after sheddings, which in turn, if overseen, promoted necrosis.
One breeder in fact had such problems with his juveniles and got completely rid of them by elevating relative humidity, especially at night.

I know that mellers do bask, but obviously it is stressful to them to not have the availability to leave a basking spot relatively far behind.
On the other hand, they obviously can thrive under solely fluorescent lights.
Thats why I recommended to "forget what I said about lights, wehn it comes to melleris".
In a classical setup for a heliophile animal, IMHO a melleri would suffer from quite some stress. Sadly most melleri keepers still do not provide enough space for these giants to allow them to actively change between larger diffusely lit areas and a defined basking area.
In large tanks, I am convinced, they will bask-I see the same for Acanthosaura and Gonocephalus, which are both said to avoid bright lights and which definitely do so in smaller tanks.

BTW, I like your melleri page very much. A lot of relevant informations and a very meaningful attittude when it comes to housing conditions and feeding.

Best regards

Ingo

Hello Ingo!
I've been looking into MH bulbs for a large viv I'm building, and they seem great. The thing I'm concerned about is are they safe? I read on a site that they can explode and sent burning hot gasses and glass everywhere, which naturally concerned me
Also are they safe as far as UV light goes? Like there was a warning on the passage to the bulb not to be exposed to the light for more than a few minutes, but I don't know if this was talking about with broken bulbs or normal ones.
I can't tell you how much I'd appreciate info on MHs because its so hard to find out about them!
Thanks so much!
-Austin
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In memory of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. 1962-2006
Loving family man.
Champion of animal rights.
Dedicated to Conservation.
We'll miss you mate! You will not be forgotten.
We'll take it from here.

Hi Austin,

I am using between 10 and 20 MHs from 35 w To 250 W since more than 10 years without an accident.
The newer generation emitters have a UV stop coating, but still quite aome UVB gets through.
Lamps are equipped with safety glass to prevent damage from explosion of the emitter.
After all a safe and meaningful technology.

Best regards

Ingo

Thanks Ingo. From what you say, it sounds like I'm good to go.
When you say 'newer generation' MHs, do you just mean the latest ones, or is that a specific type? Sorry I know very little about MHs...
Thanks,
Austin
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In memory of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. 1962-2006
Loving family man.
Champion of animal rights.
Dedicated to Conservation.
We'll miss you mate! You will not be forgotten.
We'll take it from here.

For this newest generation (eg HCI by Osram), the emitters in the heart of the device are made from ceramic (looks like plastic) and not Quartz glass as for the older ones.
These do have a significantly enhanced light yield, the colur temp hardly changes ofer thousands of hours and these bulbs do last 1.5 fold as long as the standard MHs.

Hope this helps

Ingo

Thank you for sharing Ingo.

Fantastic photos, please share more.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS