Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a newly aquired Black Rat snake from the North-East US. It looks to me like it has eggs showing in body. I would like to know if they show eggs in the fall before hibernation. The lumps are not going away like a couple mice would. Also should I hibernate it I'm not even sure its a female. How have you hibernated Black Rats. What type of bedding if any- how moist or completly dry. Should I feed it. I put a couple pictures here
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/mrstrom/snake/Black%20Rat/
Thanks ahead for your input.
Also how do you put pictures in these messages I looked in tools and toys and that url stuff is an exotic invasive species to me.

2 items
First:
Assuming there hasn't been an accident, a trauma to its midsection, your Black Rat looks like it has an abdominal swelling like an enteritis. Your last picture shows the swelling too high in the body for ovaries.
There are several nasty protozoans that can cause this, such as an amoebic infection from contaminated water, Entamoeba invadens.
I would recommend getting to a snake vet, quickly, and, if it is an infection, find the source.
One common source is if you keep turtles and there has been cross contamination to the snake.
.
.
Second:
To post your picture, type "" in back of the URL, again without the quotes.
.
At the bottom of a post editing page there is a hot link called "Tools and Toys" that will help.
-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

You have another ventral picture of a cloacae that has a lump towards thew tail.
This could be damage to one of the hemipenes.
Has this animal had this long?

-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

That is a handsome animal and one of the blackest blacksnakes I've ever seen.

That said, I think BIll is probably correct - the bluges aren't where they sould be if they were retained eggs. Furthermore, the tkickness and lenght of the tail indicate that it is most likely a male, and would never have eggs.

I also agree with Bill that you should get that snake to a good herp vet - PRONTO! The nasty bug that Bill described will kill your snake if untreated, and there are other potentially fatal conditions that should be evaluated/treated.

Don't try to hibernate him, until/unless you get his health problems addressed, unless he insists on it. You need to keep him warm, well fed, and hydrated so his immune system can fight whatever it is that's ailing him.

GET HIM TO A VET ASAP!

Good Luck,

John D.

-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

I think the pictures don't show well whats going on. I've tried to attach one the shows the lumps in relation to the body better its about 5' long. Do rat snakes show eggs in fall before they hibernate ever or never.
Thanks
" alt="Image">

>>I think the pictures don't show well whats going on. I've tried to attach one the shows the lumps in relation to the body better its about 5' long. Do rat snakes show eggs in fall before they hibernate ever or never.
>>Thanks

Sir,

Please re-read the previous responses.

The folks here are mostly not herp vets. Those who might be, will tell you that diagnosing an illness based on descriptions and photos is not definitive. Only an examination by a trained, knowledgeable professional can be truly relied upon.

Several responses have been posted, giving several reasons why retained eggs do not seem likely, based on the pics you have posted. These include:

1) The snake appears to be a male. Males don't have eggs. Period.
2) The lumps are not located in parts of the snake's body where a female snake would retain eggs.

Whether or not the lumps are retained eggs is irrelevant at this point. Whatever the lumps are, they are a serious illness and likely life-threatening.

Now, the best single piece of advice you've been given is: Get that snake to a competent herp vet, ASAP. Delay will make it less likely that your snake will survive.

Its up to you to do what needs to be done. If you can't take proper care of an animal, whose entire life is now in your hands, and your responsibility, then give it to someone who can, or release it to its fate.

Sincerely,

John D.
-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

vinvstrom
Are all that series of fotobucket pictures the same snake?
-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

Bill
Yes the Black Rat pictures are all the same snake.
I have spent several hours researching Entamoeba invadens thank you it is of great interest.

I've also tried to read everything I can find on north American black rat snakes. Can you recomend a book or other literature on their natural behavior. I was not seeking medical advice because the snake is showing no clinical signs of any illness and as was pointed out to me diagnosing from a few bad pictures is not a reasonable request. Although I would think that such a forum is a perfect place to share medical treatment information ie: metronidazole for above. Like it or not everyone is not going to bring their reptiles to a vet untill it is usually to late. This is surely a touchy subject that I likely should not have addressed. I still would like to know if Black rat snakes show eggs before they hibernate and if anyone has hibernated them how have they done it? Even if a male snake has little chance to lay eggs.
Thank you very much.
Vin

“I still would like to know if Black rat snakes show eggs before they hibernate and if anyone has hibernated them how have they done it? Even if a male snake has little chance to lay eggs.”

First, male Black Rats never produce eggs. Just like people, males produce sperm and females produce the eggs.

Second, Black Rat Snakes do not “hibernate”, they brunate. To brunate the snake, you need to place it in an area that you can easily regulate the tempurature. You need to take the snake from a temperature of about 78 F down to 60 F at a rate of about 2 degrees per day. I keep mine cooled at 60 F for eight weeks and then I reverse the process to get them warmed up. Note that you should not feed your snake for two weeks before you start the process, and the snake must have access to clean water the whole time.

You only need to do this if you intend to breed your snake, and you should only brunate the snake if it is healthy. I saw the photos of yours, and it is not in good health. Black Rats should not have large lumps in their midsections unless they just had a large meal.

Your animal needs to see a good reptile vet. The vet will be able to tell you what the lump is and what can be done for the animal. The vet can also probe your snake and tell you its gender. From your photo, it looks like a male, but probing is the only way to be certain.

FYI, I myself do keep and breed Black Rat Snakes so I do have some idea of what I am talking about.

Vin,
Elaphefan answered your post pretty well.
I agree that that animal should not be brumated till there is a health resolution.
..........................................
.
Vin said. "still would like to know if Black rat snakes show eggs before they hibernate"
.
Generally not too much but there are few absolutes in herpetology.
I could see egg lumps in a wild Black Rat female that was basking at her den site on a mild day in November.
My Eastern Fox Snake female often shows eggs right at the time I put them down for the winter; usually Thanksgiving.
Again, if your male lays eggs, it would be very special indeed!
.
..........................................
.
Vin said. " I would think that such a forum is a perfect place to share medical treatment information ie: metronidazole for above"
.
This is a very "iffy" area. I'm not sure of the liabilities of anyone diagnosing or recommending pharmaceuticals over the internet, but I, personally, would be very leery of any information received.
This is a great place for husbandry, taxonomy, and sharing pics and stories in a place where most everyone shares your admiration and respect for Rat Snakes.
There is a "Herp Health and Breeding" forum you might try.
-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

Thank you all very much. I will have the snake checked out and report the outcome.

Mr Elaphefan the picture of the snake in a plastic box is great. I'm quessing that is what you use to allow your snake to Brumate in. This is of course for future referance for healthy snakes. How moist is, if at all do you make the moss and is it used to provide moisture or a little feeling of security for the snake.
Thanks all again
vin

I did not brunate the snake in that contained. If you look closely at the photo, you can see the eggs that she laid in the moist moss. When she entered the box to lay her eggs, it had a lid on it. She knocked the lid off.

In December, I will brunate her again and I expect her to broduce another dozen eggs this spring.

Black Rat Snakes do not “hibernate”, they brunate.

FYI, I myself do keep and breed Black Rat Snakes so I do have some idea of what I am talking about.

Brunate? LOL. Ken

I have photobucket also. Here how you do it from photobucket. Under each picture you have three lines. The last one is the marked IMG. Just highlight everything in this box beginning with the [IMG]. Then right click you mouse and choose "copy". Next place your cursor where you want to pic to show up on your post then again right click the mouse and choose "paste". Once you hit submit the pic will show up in the post.
Here is an example of one of your pics from photobucket.
Also I wouldn't send the link you sent out anymore because anyone could mess with, delete or add pics to you photobucket account the way you sent it.