Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First pic is an Emroy Rat that I picked up today at the Richmond, Va. show. She has some excellent contrast. She is an 05 Texas locality. I'll have to email the breeder for which specific county she's from because I've done already forgot which county he told me, LOL.

Second pic is my 05 Emory Rat from Don Soderberg that I got last year. She also has excellent contrast, but her saddles are more of a chocolate color compared to the emory I picked up today at the show. Thanks for looking.

Steve

Very interesting emoryi, Steve. I'd be very interested to know which county it came from, also. We have a lot of variety in western guttatus in Texas. Here's a couple shots of my favorite female meahllmorum from Nueces County, in south Texas.

-Toby

Thanks Toby. I'll add the specific locality sometime tomorrow when I get the information.
Your meahllmorum is a beauty. Is that your 1100 plus gram monster? I'm amazed how large they get compared to emoryi and intermontana. Although the 05 female I just picked up today is a good size for her age. She's a bit larger then my other female.

Steve

>>Very interesting emoryi, Steve. I'd be very interested to know which county it came from, also. We have a lot of variety in western guttatus in Texas. Here's a couple shots of my favorite female meahllmorum from Nueces County, in south Texas.

Steve, that is my big female at 4.5 ft, 860 grams. Here are a couple shots of two big guys. First is the monster at 59.94 inches and 1116 grams at last weigh-in, second is an old male at 58 inches and approx 980 grams, both also from Nueces County. Yes, their size does set them apart somewhat from other emoryi, and imo, is another sign of intergradation with slowinskii, or at least a possible closer relationship to guttatus than to emoryi.

-Toby

Just wanted to add that the locality of my Emoryi Rat is East 90 in Brewster co. Tx.

Steve

Nice snakes! I have posted this photo before, but here is one from Jones Co. Tx.

Thanks for the locality data, Steve. That is very intersting. Brewster County is in the Big Bend area of west Texas, and is also in the possible intergrade zone for emoryi and meahllmorum. Great lookin' snake, too!

-Toby

>>Just wanted to add that the locality of my Emoryi Rat is East 90 in Brewster co. Tx.
>>
>>Steve

Steve, that's a nice looking emoryi/meahllmorum intergrade. Is that your only guttata from that area, or do you have a male too, and are going to breed them?

I remember the ones from se. OK that you posted. Those were great too. Are you going to breed those? Do you have any Great Plains rats you're going to breed?

I've got a shipment coming in today, I hope, with three new Great Plains rats. I'm not sure those from se. OK are Great Plains rats though. They might be Slowinski's Corns (according to the breeder).

Thanks....TC

>>>>>>>Steve, that's a nice looking emoryi/meahllmorum intergrade. Is that your only guttata from that area, or do you have a male too, and are going to breed them?I remember the ones from se. OK that you posted. Those were great too. Are you going to breed those? Do you have any Great Plains rats you're going to breed?

Thanks Terry. I believe that SE Oklahoma emoryi rat I have is not an Oklahoma locality. Those SE Oklahoma emory had slowinski influnce according to Troy, and he said my female didn't look anything like the ones that he sold to Don. The only other localities he has sold to Don have been various Texas localities. So I believe mine is most likely Tx. locality, but the exact county I have no idea. Post some pics of your new additions when you receive them.

Steve

>>Thanks Terry. I believe that SE Oklahoma emoryi rat I have is not an Oklahoma locality. Those SE Oklahoma emory had slowinski influnce according to Troy, and he said my female didn't look anything like the ones that he sold to Don. The only other localities he has sold to Don have been various Texas localities. So I believe mine is most likely Tx. locality, but the exact county I have no idea. Post some pics of your new additions when you receive them.
>>
>>Steve

Steve, my two yr. old se. OK male, from Troy, definitely has slowinskii influence. In fact, it is slowinskii, imho. Here's a couple pix that show the dorsal pattern, head, and some coloration...


I really like this guy. He's definitely more like a corn snake than a Great Plains rat. He has a bunch of speckling on the venter, plus the dbl. tail stripes underneath. I haven't had a chance to count dorsal blotches, yet, but the shape of the blotches are more corn-like than Emory's.

My other "slowinskii" is from a cross bt. an OK speciman and a TX speciman. She is a hatchling and in the shed, so I didn't take any pics, yet. Yours could be a cross too, if it's from Troy, or you could just ask him.

TC

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Terry, The head and eye shape are also much more like guttatus than emoryi, imo. The photo Troy has of the parent from Oklahoma looks even more corn-like than the one from Texas.

-Toby

>>Terry, The head and eye shape are also much more like guttatus than emoryi, imo. The photo Troy has of the parent from Oklahoma looks even more corn-like than the one from Texas.
>>
>>-Toby

Toby, I thought the head and body shape both looked different from our meahllmorum at first glance too. It definitely is different from the Refugio intergrade also. I'm really excited about this OK speciman. Now I'm wondering if the "slowinskii" influence extends all the way up into AR, MO, and IL?

Are you talking about Troy's website? Thanks...

Terry

Terry, I was referring to the photos of his slowinskii parent stock in his ad in the KS new world rat snake classifieds. He has a photo of the adult from OK and one of the parent from TX. Sorry, I don't know how to make a link to it, but I can email it to you.

-Toby

Steve, Both of those are really nice animals.
Of course, everything Don Soderberg has is usually great.
.
Ratsnakehaven
TC,
I'm finally settled back in country and here are the other west Texas Emory's you asked about.
.
Remember the first female is from the forum below:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1177553,1179377 in Brewster County.
.

This second female was found within a mile of the first female. These are all young animals.
Ventral:
.

.
Dorsal:
.

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This is my male from North Jeff Davis County.
Dorsal:
.

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Ventral:
.

.
I hope this helps.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

Bill, welcome back!

Those are great looking animals. That female is really nice. I've been studying some coastal TX forms, and intermontana, and recently got a couple slowinskii. I'm just starting to get interested in the West TX animals, so thanks for helping me along. Guess I'll have to make a trip out there one of these years.

Terry

maybe on your way to Arizona, Terry! Hurry up man, time and tide wait for no man! When you get the bug, gimme a shout!
Todd Hughes

>>maybe on your way to Arizona, Terry! Hurry up man, time and tide wait for no man! When you get the bug, gimme a shout!
>> Todd Hughes
>>

Haha, nice pix! Hammer time!

I'll get there soon enough, either spring of '07 or '08. It'd be fun to hang out together.

Those Nueces meahllmorum look like dominant snakes. Pretty cool. My Brazos Island pair are some of my best feeders. No partin' with those.

TC