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I attempted to introduce a new monitor to an aleady established one and the new one appeared to take the more aggressive approach. They both started tongue flicking like crazy and then both did this jerky head bob thing (along with the tongue flicking), almost looking like they were in a strobe light. The new one chased the old one around and then got on top of her and tried to bite her back left leg. Thats when I jumped in and split them up, not sure if it was before he could grab hold of her leg or not. The established one seemed totally freaked out and was breathing very heavy.
Is this not a match made in heaven or should I just let them establish dominance? Maybe I should put them in cages facing each other so they can get used to each other? Any suggestions would be really great. Thanks

im not sure what species you're dealing with but i have a similar experience with argus monitors. i tried introducing a male into a females cage and saw the same behavior with the jerky head movements. the female chased and cornered the male and proceded to bite him several times before i could wrestle her away from him. he ended up getting 30 staples at the vets office to close his wounds. i think i was traumatised as much as the poor male argus monitor.
i think a better way to introduce monitors is in a neutral area with a lot of surface area. could even be your living room. this allows them to see eachother at a distance and they can close the gap as they feel more comfortable. inside a cage is very close quarters and with no options, so aggression is a path many monitors take.

cheers
shay

Water Monitors.

So you think putting them in a larger room will help? Im willing to try anything but don't want to put either one in serious risk. The cage is 7 feet by 4 feet and the monitors are both about 2 feet. Introducing is just something I'm new at and Im not sure what to look for and what to look out for in order to avoid danger until I see one actually try to bit the other...

introducing adult monitors can be tough, especially if one or both has been raised most of its life alone. sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.

If you want to introduce them, you have to be willing to leave them alone and give them time to check each other out. don't be so quick to pull them apart when they start chasing each other around, you are just stopping any progress when you do that.

You should not get too upset over minor bites/cuts, as they are not really harmful to either monitor. They can heal very quickly from most injuries. If they really wanted to kill each other, they can and will do so very very quickly.

giving them time to work out the status and dominance aspects in thier relationship is important in the success of the pairing.
give them time to work things out on their own without any interference from you, and you will have a much better chance of having them do well together.

Wow i guess u could do this if you want to risk one of them getting killed ok wel reptiles give each other warings before the kill fist hissing and lifting the body up like if u see or hear there lung thats hissing if there doing it fast w there mouath open then the will stand up as high as they can on all 4 legs and lift there tail maby the will jump or it each tohere w tail biting is usaly a last resort they dont want to risk getting bit there not stupid in the wild no1s going to fix them if they get bit to they try to keep from that happing thats why the use warnight there not just going to run up and bit the animal and kill it cuz they want to only if the feel threated i would never take ur eye off and if the start chasing and fighting u should do somthing unless u dont care about there well being u should avoid any wonds or the risk of it u never know if a bite will be a bad 1 or not and they can get infected. Cuts arent nessacary. So please watch them and dont leave them alone or let them fight hissing and tail thashing isnt so bad its just a warning that they may start fighting and its dominace to.So Good luck !
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no offense but we're not all 13. please check your spelling before posting. that was almost impossible to follow

WELL JUST SO YOU KNOW IM NO WHERE 13 AND THERE no reason to be rude and nasty like that.Lets be mature.I was fustrated when writing that and I tend to write type all day so i do get sloppy and sry for that but im just here to help! Not insult.

Wow I guess u could do this if you want to risk one of them getting killed.
Ok well reptiles give each other warnings before they kill. Fist hissing and lifting their body's up.If u see or hear them forcing air out of their lungs its hissing.They will stand up as high as they can on all 4 legs and lift there tail. They maybe jump at each other and slap with their tails
Biting is usually a last resort they don't want to risk getting bitten. Their not stupid nobody's going to fix them in the wild if they get bit. So they try to avoid it. That's why they use warnings. Their not just going to run up and bit the animal and kill it cuz they want to. Only if they feel threaten.
I would never take ur eye off them and if they start chasing and fighting u should do something. Unless u don't care about their well being.
You should avoid any wounds or the risk of it. You never know if a bite will be bad or not and they can get infected. Cuts aren't necessary.
So please watch them and don't leave them alone or let them fight. Hissing and tail thrashing isn't so bad its just a warning that they may start fighting and dominace.So Good luck !
There are always exceptions sometimes they don't give warnings and just do what they feel they need every animal is different and have a different way of reaction to things this is just some ways to tell body language.

how many successfull pairs or groups of monitors do you have jammiereptiles?

You can't just generalize reptile behavior and apply it to this situation. when you pair up monitors they can get hurt, its just a fact of life. Monitors are social creatures, and as such, they have their own ways of establishing relationships.

would you really expect two monitors to do well with each other if you put them together, and then stood over top of them waiting to yank one out as soon as they start interacting? what good does that do?

I think what is important is making sure that the individuals have places in the cage to get away from each other. That way they can have a behavior cooling period; if one chases the other off, they can wait a while safely and try again later.

Jon

Thanks for your ideas. However my concern is one of them getting hurt and getting killed. I definately understand letting them settle it on their own and establish dominance, but if I just leave them in there and one kills the other, do I just say "oh well" go buy another and try again? That doesn't seem right.

You should definitely watch out for both monitors. What I was trying to get at was that you need to be able to recognize when they need to be separated and when they need to be left alone.
If you are standing right by the cage, waiting for the first sign of aggression to pull one of them out you are not allowing the monitors to work things out. Think about it, do you always become instant best friends with every person you meet as soon as you meet them? The same goes with the monitors, I think they need time to get a feel for each other before they become comfortable with each other. On the other side of that, if one is constantly attacking the other and injuring it or causing it a lot of stress and it is evident that they’re not compatible after having spent lots of time together (not just an hour or half a day), that’s when you might need to separate them.

One interesting thing that you can do, is to take droppings from both monitors and place it in the others cage. The reactions that they can have over the new scents are very very interesting. Sometimes they will spend lots of time searching their own cages looking for the other monitor.

Jon

I get what you are saying. I know how keen they are to differnt sense, so I can only imagine what putting feces from another lizards would do. Im gonna look into getting a piece of glass and dividing the large cage I have, so they can see each other and hopefully get used to another monitor being around, then I will remove the barrier and try it again after some time passes.

I seriously don't want to just put them in and leave them alone, because I know how quick they are and how quickly they could kill one another before I can react. Maybe thats just me being inexperienced, but I would like to avoid a tragedy if possible. Thanks a lot though, I appreciate the feedback.

If your goal is to keep pairs together, then you should of started with babies and raised them together. I published that in the mid ninties. Its still accurate today.

If for whatever reason your not going the best way and want to put adults together. First you have to understand, you have to live with the results, whatever they are.

In my experience, they normally do not fight right off. In fact, they may never fight. But they rarely become pairs. They may even mate, but if kept together, the male will eat the eggs, or attack the female after or during laying, or the female may attack the male after she lays. Those types of things are far more common then fighting. And there are many more of those negative behaviors that occur.

When you have good pairs, the different sexes actually help eachother. Not hinder eachother. Also consider, sometimes there are no problems and they work well, rare as that may be.

Or you can keep them seperate and put the female in with the male when she cycles. But you do have to know when that is. Even at that, they can still fight. Then seperate them after she has been fertilized. But again, you have to know when that is, Do you?

The easist method and the method with the highest succes are the same, raise babies together. After that, your playing percentages, no matter what or how you do it.

Older animals do not pair up well, and the problem is mostly the females. Some species are much worse then others, like old argus females(old gouldi complex females) Or even storrs.

So yes, there are many many variables. But it all leads to this, do it right(easist way) and your chances of success are many times greater. Do it the hard way and your chances of success are many many times less. Its your choice.

About putting two together. The size of the cage or how many hides or lites is totally meaningless. If one wants to get the other it will, I don't care if the cage is 20 by 20. I say that because I have a cage that size and if a monitor, even a tiny one, did not want another around, if will follow the other over hill and dale. I take that back, the smaller the cage, the faster one catches the other and more often. The larger the cage, it takes a few more minutes or hours. But the result is the same.

Lets say we do not like eachother(don't care what sex you are) If we are stuck in a closet, I will go after you and fists will fly. So then put us in the front room. I think the same will happen. So put us in the gym, it will take longer but I am still going to get you. Put us in the convention center, it may take days to find you, and I may not look for a while, but eventually I will. Open the doors and let us out. Well now you and I can now go our seperate ways. Most here are only talking about size difference from the closet to the frontroom. Cheers

I realize that it is much more ideal to create pair when they are babies, however I don't have that option anymore. They are both still under a year, and I know that as they grow older, the chances grow slimmer so I am trying to see if I can accomplish housing them together now.

I know that putting them in a larger room will do what you said, and might just postpone the inevitable, so I have no attemted that.

Yes, you are right I do not know enough at this point to be able to determine wether the female is cycling or when I need to split them up and put them together if that happens to be the case.

I was just looking for some suggestions. I have read many things you've said and know you believe in putting them together as babies, which I totally agree with. However I don't have babies, but if I want them I guess I could sell mine and pick up a few? I would prefer not to though if its not necessary. Thanks for your input.

So you have all the can't do's addressed, so theres only one option. What to do, Put them together and let them work it out. The other option is, don't.

Its my opinion that messing around and interfering only makes it worse.

In most cases, they work it out, with different degrees of success.

ALso put them together and GO AWAY. go on vacation, or snake hunting or visiting a friend, hahahahahahaha just leave them alone.

The problem is, you can think whats going to happen all you want, but you really have no idea. So don't overthink it and go for it. Cheers

No its not im glad you feel that way i would never risk it myself.I love all mine and would be horrifily i walnt even handel them if i just got done w 1.

Well just so you know all my moniters are fine and yes I sgree w what your saying.You mush of miss understood what i was writing.I dont think peep should mix reptiles and noe of mine r I just wanted to help them look out for warnig sing i know peep r going to do what they want. Theres not need to say think about the well being of my aanimals and how many i have and yes there are waring sings when a animal is going to get agressive im only here to help im not here to agure but i will defend myself and my reptiles and what i know from experiance im not the type of person to just tell some1 to do somthing stupid.But the person above me sugessted them to put them togeher and let them fught and i was trying to get them not to do that that is crazy anmals should have there own space.That all i have to say.

Thank you for your help as well! I am pretty familiar with their warnings and such and there was no way I was just gonna throw the new one in the cage and walk away. Thats why I was monitoring them so closely and was able to break them up before the bite caused more damage. I definately understand all of the dangers of doing this and am trying to find a way to make the transition easier if possible, or not at all if there is no hope. I figured there might be a way to ease into it like I mentioned it before...maybe putting a glass divider in the cage and let them get used to each other before putting them together, or putting their cages close together or somehow introducing scents....just curious if anyone has more experience with this and/or tips that may help. Of course ideas are always welcome too. Thanks again.

What species? The open area helps b/c the submissive one can run away like Shay mentioned.

Well not many repiltes live together in the wild the only reason to realy put them together is breeding. But no reptile is going to accept a new 1 in its home right off the bat and may never i woudnt risk any harm bu they have to get use to each other at lease but may still fight it s a risky thing i know that none of my reptiles would let another 1 in there habitat even the tortises get fustrated w each other but some animals just dont live in pairs. But even in breeding the aniamal should be closly watched they will still hurt each other. And 1 can be hurt or killed. Jus some thoguhtS Good Luck!

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