Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, if you had a retired female breeder that you wanted to go to a good home to live out a comfortable non-stressful life and placed an ad for someone just to cover shipping for this certain female........do you think that is more than fair from the breeders point of view? Hopefully you are thinking that is fair and a good way to not over breed a female. Now fast forward 6 months and this same female that you had placed up for "adoption" as a retired breeder specifically stating that if taken she was not to be bred anymore, is now on the classifieds as part of a group for sale, and her caption says how she is an adult female and she is proven and check out her colors...........do you think that is right? Well thats what I saw today. Id really like to blast the person, as I feel that me giving her away to them was going to give her a good relaxing life was best for her, and now just to see her on the classifieds for sale is really irritating. What would you do? Is it just me or does anyone else think there is a moral issue there with this person trying to sell her?

On another note to everyone looking to purchase: please research the dragons that you are purchasing. If you cant get info on where dragons come from, or get the run around from a seller, move on to someone else. If someone says that their dragon they are selling was purchased from someone else, go and try to get in touch with that person to find out if that is the truth. You dont have to do it in a sneaky type of detective way, but verifying information sometimes can lead to finding out something that you otherwise would not have known about. And it is not always good. There are plenty of good people out there, but also there have been a lot of shady people around lately. Just be careful and know what you are buying.

Sorry for the little rant..........Chris Allen

Personally, I'd do everything I could to get her back. I hate to reward people for disgusting behaviour, but I'd even be buying her back to make sure she ended up being treated the way she should in her retirement. I'd definately be blasting the person, as well as advertising that the female for sale is not suitable for more clutches. But, I do run a little hot under the collar when it comes to my animals, I admit that!

I don't blame you one bit for being angry. I co-own dogs with a breeder (I do the training and the spoiling, she does the puppy-work), and thankfully at least with dogs we can spay and neuter them before an older dog is placed with a new home. The dogs I have, are mine forever, so the breeder is very careful who she places with me, but she will find good homes for dogs that are being retired. They are always fixed, and the new owner has to sign an extensive contract stating that if they ever want rid of the dog, or if they die/become sick etc etc the dog is immediately returned to one of us. I don't know if that would work with dragons, but the contract we use is legally binding.

Chris that really sucks. People are always trying to get something for nothing and make a quick dollar. Post on that bad bad site. And I would email the person. It is definately shady. I think trying to find a local child would be the best way to retire dragons. I think that maybe what I do with some of mine. Or to a classroom.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

Can you get in contact with this person and see what they would take to get the animal back?

It really upsets me that you made what you felt was the best choice for her future and someone is violating that choice. If someone else gets her they probably would as a breeder and she would not have that life you intended. Granted there is no way you can control what happens after they leave you. If rescued some dragons in sad shape and restored their health but also indicated they were not to be breed to whoever I gave them too..... for very good reason.

I have a nice home in Florida that would be great for her retirement, sunshine, lazy pool days and great medical care. Can you try and contact him and see what it takes and if needed we can even sweeten the offer I think you know what I mean?

Lets try and get her back and give her the life she deserves

Cheri you are da bomb!

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

Great idea. Cheri to the rescue,lol. I hope this person comes to thier senses. I feel sorry Chris got taken advantage like this. I know he was trying to do the best thing for her, and to get kicked in the butt for it. Well, that just stinks. I hope this person does not have to be persuaded that much to realize he could do the right thing and hand it over for the life she deserves. Cheri can I come down when I get old and spend time in the sun and you pool,lol,
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Mystical Dragons

but you have to share it with a few dragons

I'd share the pool with a few if I had too,lol. Only of course they promise to go the the bathroom before coming in
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Mystical Dragons

Since Cheri and I have already discussed rocking as old ladies with lizards on our shoulders...lol
Sure hope the Grandma beardie ends up in Florida.
I think I'd have to open a can of whoop a** on this jerk and smear his name all over the place. But then, that's just my sweet nature.
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TheClassyLizard

to the side, but only to the back area where it meets the 2 - 8' x 8' x 5 foot iguana cages. They are pretty territorial and love their palaces.

Christy, can you retire with a case of that whoop A** stuff, we can alway use it in the golden years!

It's even easier to open whoop a$$ when your older, people expect you to be nuts. It's a great excuse..*snicker*
HEADLINE FLORIDA NEWS:
Several elderly ladies opened a complete case of whoop a$$ on a neglectful bearded dragon breeder/owner.
The white haired group was last seen with multiple dragons on their backs and shoulders, with a few stuffed in to the bags on the front of their rolling walkers.
This group has struck several times in different areas of Florida, leaving the neglectful breeder in a heap.
The area police officials are looking for these ladies with identifying jackets that read across the back "Whoop A$$ Grannies".
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TheClassyLizard

Heyyyyyy, that means I can't join and be a Whoop A$$ granny

My hair is FAR from silver, but then again I haven't hit 30 yet!..... How about if I wear a wig? I have the other part down... I DO live in Florida and hate to see Beardies mistreated.
LOL

>>It's even easier to open whoop a$$ when your older, people expect you to be nuts. It's a great excuse..*snicker*
>>HEADLINE FLORIDA NEWS:
>>Several elderly ladies opened a complete case of whoop a$$ on a neglectful bearded dragon breeder/owner.
>>The white haired group was last seen with multiple dragons on their backs and shoulders, with a few stuffed in to the bags on the front of their rolling walkers.
>>This group has struck several times in different areas of Florida, leaving the neglectful breeder in a heap.
>>The area police officials are looking for these ladies with identifying jackets that read across the back "Whoop A$$ Grannies".
>>-----
>> TheClassyLizard

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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Well certainly we'll need "trainees" !!!
and someone that can run faster then us...
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TheClassyLizard

Well if it ends up in Florida, I will help ya kick some A$$ LOL

>> Sure hope the Grandma beardie ends up in Florida.
>> I think I'd have to open a can of whoop a** on this jerk and smear his name all over the place. But then, that's just my sweet nature.
>>-----
>> TheClassyLizard
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

...there was a way to check out potential buyers. We're expecting our first clutch to hatch in late Sept., & have been racking our brains trying to figure out a way to assure they go to good homes. Anyone out here with suggestions?
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God Bless, Beardie Dreams, & Peace!
Pogoniacs™

I can attest to your generosity and it really s*cks that someone took advantage of that. Can you report the guy selling her to Kingsnake - maybe get his ad pulled at least?
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The Classroom Zoo is...
1:2 leopard geckos, R.I.P. Rosie
1:1(gravid) African Fat Tail Geckos
1:0 Jackson's Chameleon
1:0 Veiled Chameleon
1:1 Bearded Dragons
0:1 Florida Kingsnake
0:1 White's Tree Frog
Hairless Mice, Roaches, Mealies, and Supers...

http://www.virtualhomestead.blogspot.com

I agree with you 100% and I think it's more then fair to "give away" an older breeder to someone with the intentions of just letting her/him live out their natural days. I think it's a very good thing because a lot of people would sell them off and lie about their age and/or condition just to make even more money. It's really pathetic someone would take advantage of your kindness and concern for your dragon. Especially when someone is trying to make money off of that situation.

I personally think it's becoming a real problem in the bearded dragon "world". I too am sick of seeing falsely advertised dragons with either color enhancement, or out right lies about the dragons. I have personally ordered four of five dragons in the last six months from "breeders" only to get screwed over completely.. and I'm not talking about $100 dragons. I can honestly say in the last year i've invested over $1000 in dragons from "breeders" only to get screwed over and not be able to use those dragons.

It's a real shame and it really makes me think if it's even worth it anymore. I have been lucky, most of our "customers" (god i hate that word makes it sound so lame) have been great.. but the tons of emails with people trying to scam me, lie to me, trade a bunch of junk, or expect to pay $20 for a great colored dragon just because joe smoe has crap he's letting go cheap is getting old. People just don't understand the HOURS it takes to do this right. And we are "small" time compared to most breeders. I can't imagine doing this full-time and relying on it for income.. it would drive me insane.

So anyway, I agree with you Chris. It's a real shame and is pathetic. After next year we're really going to have to re-evaluate the situation and decided if it's even worth it. It's a shame because there are so many great dragon owners out there and in this forum, but their are also so many that aren't. It's a shame, because in the end, it's the dragons that suffer.

Just my rant on the topic.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

awesome website, nice design, nice animals......
Sue
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Life is what happens when you are making other plans.......

thank you Sue I appreciate that.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

I think that solution is more than fair and find it appalling that a person would have the audacity to advertise her in a group when they know full well you check out the sales. I would have to e-mail that person and vent. I don't know if anything could be done legally but I would certainly contact that person.
Good luck,
Karen
P.S. Thanks for the warning about the shady people out there. I've run into a few.

That is just horrible, it is people like that who give us "small time" breeders a bad name. It is hard enough trying to "get known" in this world, but sheeeeeesh the crap some people pull is just plain pathetic.
I would email them and let them KNOW that you know that dragon, etc. I would also write to Kingsnake. You are VERY well known and I am sure they would take your word over whoever this creep is anyday!

Don't just lay down and take it, I would make it known and even go post on the BOI

>>Ok, if you had a retired female breeder that you wanted to go to a good home to live out a comfortable non-stressful life and placed an ad for someone just to cover shipping for this certain female........do you think that is more than fair from the breeders point of view? Hopefully you are thinking that is fair and a good way to not over breed a female. Now fast forward 6 months and this same female that you had placed up for "adoption" as a retired breeder specifically stating that if taken she was not to be bred anymore, is now on the classifieds as part of a group for sale, and her caption says how she is an adult female and she is proven and check out her colors...........do you think that is right? Well thats what I saw today. Id really like to blast the person, as I feel that me giving her away to them was going to give her a good relaxing life was best for her, and now just to see her on the classifieds for sale is really irritating. What would you do? Is it just me or does anyone else think there is a moral issue there with this person trying to sell her?
>>
>>
>>On another note to everyone looking to purchase: please research the dragons that you are purchasing. If you cant get info on where dragons come from, or get the run around from a seller, move on to someone else. If someone says that their dragon they are selling was purchased from someone else, go and try to get in touch with that person to find out if that is the truth. You dont have to do it in a sneaky type of detective way, but verifying information sometimes can lead to finding out something that you otherwise would not have known about. And it is not always good. There are plenty of good people out there, but also there have been a lot of shady people around lately. Just be careful and know what you are buying.
>>
>>
>>
>>Sorry for the little rant..........Chris Allen
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

n/p

especially because you gave the dragon to them in good faith that she wouldnt be bred or sold as a breeder and they turn around and do the opposite, i personally would rip them a new one, i dont think thats right at all.

>>Ok, if you had a retired female breeder that you wanted to go to a good home to live out a comfortable non-stressful life and placed an ad for someone just to cover shipping for this certain female........do you think that is more than fair from the breeders point of view? Hopefully you are thinking that is fair and a good way to not over breed a female. Now fast forward 6 months and this same female that you had placed up for "adoption" as a retired breeder specifically stating that if taken she was not to be bred anymore, is now on the classifieds as part of a group for sale, and her caption says how she is an adult female and she is proven and check out her colors...........do you think that is right? Well thats what I saw today. Id really like to blast the person, as I feel that me giving her away to them was going to give her a good relaxing life was best for her, and now just to see her on the classifieds for sale is really irritating. What would you do? Is it just me or does anyone else think there is a moral issue there with this person trying to sell her?
>>
>>
>>On another note to everyone looking to purchase: please research the dragons that you are purchasing. If you cant get info on where dragons come from, or get the run around from a seller, move on to someone else. If someone says that their dragon they are selling was purchased from someone else, go and try to get in touch with that person to find out if that is the truth. You dont have to do it in a sneaky type of detective way, but verifying information sometimes can lead to finding out something that you otherwise would not have known about. And it is not always good. There are plenty of good people out there, but also there have been a lot of shady people around lately. Just be careful and know what you are buying.
>>
>>
>>
>>Sorry for the little rant..........Chris Allen
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reiko
photos

Chris,
I would feel the same way, I would also be heartbroken to know that a female that I wanted to have a relaxed life hasn't been getting that. If he has her up as "a breeder" than you know that he has also been breeding her as well, and whoever buys her will also breed her. If I were you, I would contact this person and tell him that you want her back, pay shipping back to you if you have to. He probably won't go for that (this person is obviously not reasonable) but it is worth a try. Just tell him that when he took her, he was under the agreement that she was not to be bread again. People like that make me sick, they adopt an animal only to resale or to overbreed them. It's really hard to know who to trust when you adopt an animal out. Christy

Hi Chris,

Sorry they screwed you over like that. That's sucks for two reasons; they didn't keep their word and they are selling a "worn out" breeder to some unsuspecting person. I have given away quite a few animals and as a board member of the Long Island Herp Society I run a big part of our adoption service. I would be quite peeved it that happened to one of the animals we adopted out. Not alot you can do to avoid this type of thing the first time but make sure the name and shipping address are known to others so we can avoid giving them any more free animals to abuse. Make sure you state something like "I gave a retired breeder to ...., shipping address was..... They were to keep it as a pet and not breed it or sell it and now it looks like they are selling the animal on kingsnake. I'm not 100% sure but it sure LOOKS like the animal I gave them." Use inuendos to avoid liability since you can only assume it's your dragon (every good breeder can tell his/her animal). I'm sure the putz will tell you "Oh that's not the one you gave me, that's a similar animal" (yeah right).

Regards,
John

It's horrible you can't trust people. In the future I would include in an e-mail or written note (that REQUIRES a response) that the animal will not be used for breeding. That's possibly the only way to have any legal recourse if it came to that. I don't breed my beardies... rather have them around longer to enjoy. But I've seen other types of breeders do that.... some registered "cats" have a clause in their selling contract that you won't get them declawed.

But I agree, it would be so much nicer if we could actually trust people to do what they say they will do.

I have found that donation of older individuals are best suited for adoption through herp clubs, etc. I can't tell you how many dragons I give away to younger or beginer herpers with the hopes of fulfilling that burning desire to keep exotics and hopefully start someone down a decent path of breeding and husbandry.

Unfortunately, a good moral ethic is hard to find in business that is number two in profit, next to the number one profiting industry, which is illegal narcotics.

Hopefully you can assist this individual with maybe retracting this animal as being for sale and perhaps donate her to a school, etc.

Everyone, please keep in mind to not become discouraged with actions like the one that started this thread. Eventually the garbage gets taken out...it just takes a bit of time.

- Galen
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Galen Clark
www.captivescience.com