Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two females in a 60 gal, one albino and one normal, both juvies, maybe 5 inches. The albino is definitely a bit hot tempered, I was wondering if this was normal.
I've had the normal about a month and a half, the albino about two weeks, they get along great, though the albie hides a lot. I've found they do have sensitive eyes, which accounts for this.
At any rate, I would like to breed them, I was thinking with a blizzard, as I really like these. I really just want to breed them for my own personal satisfaction, not monetary gain.
Here's where I'll make some enemies: I would kind of like to let the more normal, or should I say less outstanding leos go once they are large enough. I live in San Diego, where the weather is temperate year round, and plenty of bugs in the yard. I used to live in Florida, where escaped herps do very well, and would love to see leos running around in the yard. I do understand the possibilties of predation, as well as causing an ecological imbalance, I've seen firsthand the damage caused by non native species in the case of curly tailed lizards taking over south florida and driving the brown anoles out, and the green anoles to such rarity you hardly ever see one. But there aren't many lizards out here, and if I was mostly releasing females this wouldn't be likely to happen. But would the climate kill them? It does get down to about 60 degrees in the winter at night, and I would hate to have these critters die...
Someone give me some advice to save me from myself. Also, being that my females are young, this isn't going to happen any time soon.
Thanks in advance....

Not only is it irresponsible, it is also illegal. I don't think you realize the full ramifications of what you are doing. Sure, there aren't a lot of lizards that you see... but what about the things that you *DON'T* see. There are just so many things wrong with this idea that is isn't even funny, and I hope that this message was just a troll...

Agreed. Not only is it illegal, but you clearly have no idea what will happen to the lizards, or what impact they will have on the local ecology. 60F @ night they would probably survive, but the questions of what they'd be able to eat and what might eat them and what effects they would cause as predator and prey are still a big deal. Obviously an extreme example, but when they killed off the wolves in Yellowstone National Park, it had effects they couldn't have imagined, and soon they wished they hadn't done it. It has taken many years to bring things (somewhat) back to normal there. As the other poster said, this is a horrible idea, and there's no knowing what effect you'd cause or how much time and trouble it would take to fix it.

Do not breed geckos unless you have a good clear plan of where they're going to live. Either sell them, give them to friends who'll enjoy keeping them, or keep them yourself, but realize that by bringing them into the world, you're accepting responsibility for their well-being, and that does *not* include releasing them as a non-native species!

The only place where you could do this and *not* be committing a horrible ecological crime would be where they are native, and even then it's sketchy at best, because you'd be changing the normal population levels.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

No offence Kid, but that's the STUPIDEST idea I have ever heard of. Again no offence, but jump back into reality Kid, you've lost it, you're almost to the point of no return Kid. What do you want to do, make your back yard into Leo World??? What the heck are you going to do when you take the lawn mower out....Gross. Leo's can't outrun a lawn mower. You also say that there aren't many lizards out there now, well guess what, that's because it's not their habitat. Now go raise some cute dogs and set them free in the country somewheres.

I really doubt that flame was necessary, Sky.

Adding to Ostlyn's last paragraph, not only would you be jacking with natural ecological levels, you would basically be introducing a new species. I assume that your leos are captive bred, and because of that they have been raised in naature. The leos we have in our house have half, if that, of the antibodies that the ones in the wild do. My friend just did his case study for his animal medicines major on wild vs home kept animals. It's interesting stuff.

Either way, i'm north of you about an hour, in Irvine. There may not look like there are lizards running around too much, but let me assure you there are, as my cats bring them in nearly every day. We also have a multi-tude of snakes running around down here in south county, and more predators than you can shake a stick at. If you don't want to see the leos die, don't release them. Southern California has a big feral cat problem right now.

Your cat brings them home??? Then get rid of the cat. Cats have no reason to be running free killing off native wildlife populations.

You people surprise me more and more every day.

Thanks for your concern mate, but I have handled the problem quite well, and don't let the cats out until the night now. I'm glad you're an expert, though.

Still not a good idea to let cats run around outdoors... not only do they hurt wildlife, they also tend to have shorter life spans.

I never claimed to be an expert, just pointing out that you've admitted to contributing to a problem that you cited.

Also, SAS what you don't realize is that whenever you state a true and pertinent fact you are sarcastically (perhaps even jealously) called an expert. Welcome to hell.

I don't think that "flame" was needed AFSC. It's not SAS fault that he didn't know you rule the forum with an iron fist.

Sorry if I seemed rude or blunt if I worded it differently than by saying, "No, please don't do that, it isn't right". But I'm not going to condone, patronize, or encourage deliberately raising something as indefensible as a Leo for the sole purpose of throwing it into the type of environment as Chrislindgren suggested. It almost sounded like he wanted to start a population of Leos around his house. As another poster in this thread correctly stated, it's not exactly a Pakastani environment. If there's a local Reptile Rescue organization near you, join one and see how many rescues are actually done because there are so many people with that exact same kind of thinking.

I'm no expert on Leos or anything else for that matter, but I have been a herp hobbyist for so many years I would be embarrassed to say.

Take Care... and see ya around...

I wasn't offended, at any rate, everyone is entitled to opinions, as well as the right to state those opinions. As for not being a Pakistani environment, we are in a desert, and there is a lot of military here, so who knows, maybe they would feel more at home than you think
But you might have included your indefensible comment in your first post.

Yeah, I've seen the cats in dumpsters behind my work, but none around my house, although there are a lot of skunks, and I don't want to give them a reason to hang around.
As for snakes, I've been here two years and have yet to see one out and about. Which honestly, makes me more nervous than when you see them. Growing up surfing, it was a similar thing, seeing lots of little reef sharks wouldn't bother me as much as not seeing them, as I assumed they left the area because of something THEY were afraid of, which would make me very nervous every time, as I've seen some big tigers out there.

what exactly are you planning on doing anyway? Going out at night with a flashlight to find your rejected companions and see how long they last in a non pakastani environment?

Hey, I did say to save me from myself...obviously not every idea is a good one. But is it really such a horrible thought to walk out of your door and see a few leos amongst the bushes, though? Oh, they're so much prettier locked up in a cage.
I was asking for advice on the matter, and definitely got some. As to the legality of the matter, this is my furthest concern, the well being of the animals being foremost.
The aspect of predation does bother me, but only because leos are cute. They don't deserve life any more than the crickets I feed them, though, and to be a part of the food chain really is every animals' responsibility.
The issue of captive bred animals not having the proper antibodies to deal with the wild was by far the best argument, especially considering a non-native species.
But even the concept of native vs. non-native escapes me, growing up in South Florida, where we have everything from insects invented by UF researchers (love bugs) to seven foot long iguanas running down the sidewalk (seen this personally) to a tribe of monkeys living off of I-95. That state still brings in non-native species to deal with native pests, as in the case of Tiger mosquitoes from Thailand brought in to feed on the native mosquitoes at the larval stage, as well as trees like the Australian Pine, which was brought in to dry up the swamps for developers, and then took over completely. They recently began to eradicate these trees, leaving temporarily barren land.
Over 90% of marine organisms in any major port in the world are non-native, the hitch in inside ship's bilges and are released when the ship docks. Many of these transplanted species simply have no predators in their new homes, and so flourish. Curly tailed lizards have almost completely wiped out the native anoles in Florida, especially the green ones, not only by eating the anoles, but by competing for food sources.
I'm asking about the ramifications of releasing a few females in a yard, not males and females. I don't want to establish a breeding population, by any means. My greatest concern was climactic effects on leos, there are plenty of bugs for them, and being a bit slow, I'd imagine they wouldn't wander far. I had a "wild" green iguana living in a hibiscus shrub back home, saw him there every day for 3 months before I caught him. All he would eat were flowers from that shrub, and I realized I preferred to see him amongst the plants than in a cage, so I let him go.
I see a lot of posts here where people are keeping these cuties in small cages, do you really think this would be the lizard's preference? Some website said 10" X 10" was sufficient per leo. I feel bad about having two juvies in a 60 gal. Sure, a person could live in a closet, but wouldn't you rather have something a bit bigger? Captive bred or not, you can't erase instinct completely, as in the case of the cat bringing home lizards every night. Domestication determines that the cat bring home these "gifts", but instinct led to the hunt. I believe we are the only species of animal that actually prefer to live in cages, ie. houses, apts, etc. Picking out a cave and exhibiting territorial behavior isn't the same thing.
I asked for input here, and I appreciate ALL of it, thank you for taking the time to respond, whether more to stroke your ego than to help someone or not. But honestly, I can't house every leo I hatch, and I'd rather set one free than to hand it over to someone who may neglect it. At least in the wild it has a fighting chance, and after all, this is the backbone of natural selection.
And I do realize, by arguing natural selection, I come full circle back to native vs. non native. That's where adaptation and evolution come in...although without breeding there obviously won't be any evolution.

A No is a No! No it is NOT a good idea to raise Leos to ket go in your back yard.

Point taken. Boy am I glad I prefaced my question with the enemies comment.
Now would somebody be so kind as to enlighten my ignorant ass as to the temperament of my albino, which was the first question in my original post?

Much like any other animal, they each have their own personality. I've seen lazy ones that sit around and do nothing all day and night, really active ones that patrol their whole enclosure every night, friendly ones, and aggressive, angry ones - your albino may just be a bit less friendly/more aggressive than the other one. That being said, juveniles in general tend to be more nervous and thus more likely to bite than adults. They tend to mellow out with time and handling. Juveniles, at least, can't do any significant damage with a bite, so stick your hand in there and let the gecko get used to the idea that you're neither a threat nor food. Don't chase her around; let her come to you.

On the other point, I believe that you've gotten the message, though I am surprised that with all of your knowledge about what non-native species do to environments that you were even considering it, but I did take the time to look up the applicable laws with the SPCA/Humane Society of San Diego, and they're here (as is the electronic form for reporting animal abuse):

http://www.sdhumane.org/animalrights/animallaws.cfm
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Much appreciated. I am aware that each organism has it's own inherent traits, yes, but I have also heard that females incubated at higher temps, as in trying to hatch males, tend to be a bit nasty. It makes sense that someone trying to hatch albino males for the purpose of breeding obviously may get a few females, and let them loose to pet stores.
I will let her get used to me, and if she decides not to, I'll accept that as well. Having pets I can't handle is nothing new to me, and actually is almost preferred. If I wanted something to give me contact and vice versa I'd get a cat.
The nastiest she has gotten is to chirp at me when I mist her hide, the normal just perks up a bit at this, so by comparison I label her as "nasty".
As to the introduction of non native species, my yard is actually quite enclosed, almost to the point of being a sterile environment, having a leo population go out of control and cause a stir is really just not going to happen.
But regardless, I won't be releasing any, I repeat, ANY geckos into the wild. Thank you for your consideration, and for taking the time to research the applicable laws in my region, though as I stated the legality of the issue was really my furthest concern. San Diego is far too concerned with issuing parking tickets to come investigating rampant gecko sightings. Furthermore, I subscribe to laws of a higher nature than our befuddled court systems.
Again I appreciate the reply, and look forward to learning about these beautiful animals from those with far more experience than I have.

even though you intend on releasing only females, it's possible that they could come in contact with an escaped male from someone else (or even yourself at some point in the future).

As reptiles become more popular pets, there will be more escapes and in years to come, your wild females may be the beginning of a big problem.

I completely understand your point of view. I wouldn't want to bring creatures into this world just to be kept in a box, either. My answer to your concern, though, would not be to breed them and set them free, but to not breed them in the first place.

Kind regards,

Kimberly

I have not read this entire forrum but I live in SD county in fallbrook and there IS NO WAY a leo could survive out here!!!!!not in any part of the US as far as i can tell.
if you dont want them post a message in here for an adoption im sure someone will be interested. not in any part of the US as far as i can tell.

Why on earth would you want to release a Leopard Gecko, which is indigenous to Afghanistan, into the wilds of San Diego?

If you don't WANT it, why did you get it in the first place? If you really want to get rid of it, post an ad on craigslist and adopt it out to someone who will care for it, instead of tossing it out into an environment that is totally foreign to it?