Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

I have some RepCal calcium with D3. Is it OK to give to my russian torts while using a UVB bulb and housed indoors? I thought you should only give D3 is no UVB is provided. I am not sure. Any advice would be appreciated.

When my torts are indoors, living under a low-UV fluorescent bulb (Chroma 50) and eating greens and weeds, I lightly dust the food with RepCal w/d3 twice a week. If I use pelleted food that has d3 in it (like Mazuri or Pretty Pets) for one meal a week, then I might use the repcal/d3 once a week.

When outdoors, I use no d3 supplements, although the torts might get pellets once every few weeks. I instead use plain calcium powder and put cuttlebone in the pen.

If you are using a strong source of UV (like the mercury vapor bulbs) you might want to cut back on d3 supplements. Trouble is, it's hard to tell if the bulb is doing its job without a meter. You always know that unfiltered sunlight is working.

Whatever you do, don't add calcium/d3 to every meal and be sure to dust the food lightly instead of giving it a thick coating of powder. Excess D3 can lead to serious problems.

Can you please explain what serious problems can result from too much D3 with calcium. This is the first I've heard of this and I would definitely be guilty of feeding too much calcium with D3 to my tort so I'd like to know the risks.

Thanks,

Fred

I'm guilty of speaking with more authority than I deserve. I should have said that from what I've read, overdose of d3 is dangerous.

From the tortoisetrust.org website:

"It is common for herpetologists to over estimate D3 demand and to grossly overdose orally. One possible consequence of this practice is metastatic mineralisation of the soft tissues (Barten, 1982; Wallach and Hoessle, 1966). Vitamin D3 is highly toxic and extreme caution should be exercised whenever oral supplementation is employed (Finlayson and Woods, 1977)."

I've seen similar warnings for humans. Too much d3 can harm the kidneys and other organs, and too much calcium and d3 can lead to mineralization of soft tissues.

RepCal w/D3 recommends 1/2 tablespoon RepCal per pound of vegetation for herbivores. I don't know how you compensate for UV lighting or the use of packaged foods with d3 already in them. And since I generally feed my animals a few grams of food at a time, I don't dose out the RepCal powder per their recommendations.

I just do as I mentioned in the earlier posting. Light application (dusting, not coating) of food once or twice a week for indoor animals depending on the use of food pellets in the diet. If I used only food pellets that have d3 in them, I wouldn't add any RepCal with d3 at all.

I've been fortunate in 10 years of keeping various reptiles and amphibians in that none have shown signs of over or under dosing of vitamins or minerals. A varied diet, light supplementaton, and as much exposure to natural sunlight as possible seem to work for my animals.

From what i have read:

outside= no D3
inside=D3

now over using the calcium i have read can be the cause of mineralization of soft tissue and can also lead to kidney stones. i use Miner-All about two to three times a week with the torts at home and at work, but i also feed veggies that are naturally high in calcium to begin with (dandelion and collards, cacti pads) i am borrowing a great book right now from a freind that gives the run down of many common grocery store veggies, and how it applies to reptiles, and they had an article on too much calcium, never a good thing, hope this helps.

Adam

this is wild Gopher that we saw in florida along with a few burrows i found in the woods

-----
3.5 THAYERI
1.2 SPLENDIDA (1.0 ALBINO/ 0.2 HYPO)
1.3 ALTERNA
1.1 CAL KING (1.0 ALB.LAVENDER/0.1 BLIZZARD)
0.0.1 HOLD BACK RUNT ALBINO CORN
0.1.1 pyxie
0.0.2 horned frogs

Further info from tortoisetrust.org:

23) How frequently to use vitamin and mineral supplements? Can you give too much calcium?
[Jody Karlin] To be honest, I am a naturalist, I prefer to determine the correct, varied diet, offering my animals their full compliment of essential vitamins and minerals, with a special emphasis placed on vitamin A, vitamin D (in the form of D3) and a calcium to phosphorus ratio of at least 2:1, preferably higher. I am also a realist, and play it safe by sprinkling the meal with pure calcium carbonate powder and one of the many available vitamin supplements once a week. Of course, feel free to be more cautious and add these supplements twice a week. Overdosing with oral supplements is not that common, injectibles, maybe.

In the absence of excess D3, to much calcium will be handled by bodily hormones, and harmlessly, passed through the urine. In case of a combination of high levels of calcium and D3, the potential exists for mineralization of the animals soft tissue. But I think, "A wise man knows what to overlook".

Would adding vitamin supplements to a varied diet that included greens throw off your calcium phosphorus ratio by adding more phosphors that is in the vitamins. I've often woundered if it would have this effect,and why or why not. Vic

>>Would adding vitamin supplements to a varied diet that included greens throw off your calcium phosphorus ratio by adding more phosphors that is in the vitamins. I've often woundered if it would have this effect,and why or why not. Vic
>>

1) I don't use multi-vitamins. I only supplement with plain calcium (outdoors) or calcium with d3 (indoors). The varied diet covers most of the other nutritional needs of the tortoise. I do feed a small amount of tortoise pellets, which are sort of like vitamin supplements.

2) The calcium supplements I use have little or no phosphorous. There are calcium (plain or with d3) supplements that advertise that they are 2:1 calciumhosphorous. I don't think this 2:1 stuff makes sense since most tortoise foods have lots of phoshporous to begin with. Why add more?

3) I use calcium supplements to overcome the high phosphorous of greens and vegetables. I was told by a big-shot tortoise expert that you can't count on high-calcium greens actually having any calcium at all. The nutritional content of vegetation varies with the soil and agricultural practices.

Thanks for the info. I was planning on doing a light dusting about every second or third feeding, and this sounds about right based on your recommendations. I was concerned about using the D3 due to using a 5 or 10 UVA/UVB bulb indoors. However, I agree it is no way near the output of good old natural sunlight, so will make sure to use supplementation with D3 unless they are truly outdoors for long periods of time.