Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted recently about a garter I purchased from a local show...

This baby had milky eyes on the date of sale, which was October 14. Two days later, the eyes had cleared, and I waited for the baby to stop eating and shed, but this did not happen as the days ticked away.

I added some rock to the cage, a bigger dish for soaking, a moistened paper towel for one afternoon, etc, but still no shed. This baby was very dark in color.

Well... baby continued to eat, until October 30, when it went off its feed. On October 31, it shed in the afternoon. Bright colors emerged, but the tail did not shed below the vent, and I had to soak the tail on November 2, to remove the skin from the tail.

I believe this long after the eyes clear, is quite unusual for a shedding time... anyone?

-----
KITKAT

0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
1.0 African House Snake
0.1 Albino Corn Snake
1.0 Red Sided Garter Snake
0.1 Peromyscus leucopus (White-footed mouse)
2.5 Turkish Angora (show) cats

Antioch Turkish Angoras
PuRRS Rescue

I have one friend who thinks this is coccinus, while the other thinks it is parietalis. Opinions?

.

-----
KITKAT

0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
1.0 African House Snake
0.1 Albino Corn Snake
1.0 Red Sided Garter Snake
0.1 Peromyscus leucopus (White-footed mouse)
2.5 Turkish Angora (show) cats

Antioch Turkish Angoras
PuRRS Rescue

Definitely a oregon red spotted.If a baby snake goes off feed that is a big problem.They usually die pretty quick after that.I try not to handle my babies if I don't have to.They don't need the stress.It definitey should have shed by now.

Hi Tom,
I'm not familiar with Oregon red spots with whitish ventral scales. How common is this?

It's pretty common.It depends on the population.If you look at a lot of the CA snakes.They are all just intergrades.Sf garters,Ca redsides,red spots ,and valley garters.

Since you say they are intergrades, Tom, does this mean you are doubtful about the seperation of the subspecies? This is a question that I have had as well...
-----
KITKAT

0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
1.0 African House Snake
0.1 Albino Corn Snake
1.0 Red Sided Garter Snake
0.1 Peromyscus leucopus (White-footed mouse)
2.5 Turkish Angora (show) cats

Antioch Turkish Angoras
PuRRS Rescue

Hi Kitkat,
The biological species concept suggests that only "species" have reproductive isolation in the wild. It doesn't suggest reproductive isolation at the "subspecies" level, so subspecies could interbreed all day long without affecting the concept. When two different species breed, they form hybrids, which often result in post-fertilization reproductive barriers (one of which can be sterility, like most mules). When two different subspecies interbreed, they form intergrades, which normally have a very limited distribution but are normally fertile. Hope this helps,
Rick

NP
-----
KITKAT

0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
1.0 African House Snake
0.1 Albino Corn Snake
1.0 Red Sided Garter Snake
0.1 Peromyscus leucopus (White-footed mouse)
2.5 Turkish Angora (show) cats

Antioch Turkish Angoras
PuRRS Rescue

And did this snake shed its skin now?
What about an update.

Maybe it already shed, and than has eaten its skin. This sometimes happens.
-----
Dutch Thamnophis Forum