Reptile & Amphibian Forums

They smell the rodents thawing. When I used to keep Ball Pythons only, I always had some who wouldn't eat when I wanted them to. Now, I have only one. He lives with the smaller Anacondas and Boas, and he thinks he's one of them. He eats, and sheds, like a rainforest snake. 78 degrees, and 90% humidity, really agrees with him. He won't go in the water, though.

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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

I have a 1 year old Columbian Redtail, and my 2-3month old Green, both are about the same length, just the Boa has more wieght. I tried to introduce them to each other and the redtail sniffed the conda, then pulled back real fast and looked at me like he was thinking "WHAT THE HELL?". I havent tried since. Should I just put them in the same tank and watch them?

I have my 9foot anaconda in the same cage as my 8foot and 6foot redtail boas and they all stay by eachother and never ever bite each other, so you should try it and just watch them for awhile and see if anything happens.

Ok, maybe it's just because I one of the fussy boa guys, (on the boa forum, I'm considered quite liberal for keeping my B.c.i. communally) but I do not ever promote mixing of species. IMO the potential for problems is just too great. Even if all animals concerned are healthy, captive bred animals, there can be health risks. Firstly, size difference, an adult ball, or even a male boa is no where near in league with an adult 'conda. Then there's gut flora. That which may be benign or even necessary in one animal may cause illness in another genus or species, even from the same part of the world. Not to mention the standard feeding risks and unavoidable fecal contamination which go hand in hand with keeping snakes communally. Not to mention that wild anacondas have even been documented to be canibalistic.

Yes many people, even many zoos have mixed species successfully for many years, but even though it can be done, doesn't mean it shoud be. I feel that if you are going to make the commitment to keep giants, there should be no short cuts or concessions.

Now in the end this is only my opinion, you are all quite entitled to your own, and I bear no ill will to any who disagree with me. We must all make our own decisions.

Regards.
Gary D.
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I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

` It's really unusual to find someone who can express an opposing opinion without being a jerk, hiding behind a keyboard. Congratulations on your maturity. It is a pleasure to speak to your points.
` I've been dealing with Yellow Anacondas for six years, Boids in general for much longer, and one of the interesting things I've found about them is the disparity in adult sizes. I have 3 adult males. Two of them are barely 6 feet, and not too much bulkier than a Boa. the third is hitting 10 feet, and is husky, almost 30 pounds! He is not in my community cage. I have one young adult female who is turning into a giant. She is 4 years old, and over 11 ft., over 50 pounds already. She has been fed at six week intervals since she was 1 year old. It takes 6 pounds of food to satisfy her!! My other female Yellows are much smaller. The Ball in my community cage is a husky old guy, and the only snake there with a strong feeding response.
` As far as gut flora, they are born gut-sterile. The gut microflora they grow comes from their surroundings. True, that can be brought from the wild from a field-collected parent. In my case, however, that is not so. Even so, a breeder's facilities might contain pathogens, but a long quarantine can lower the chances of contamination. Even so, there ain't no fer shure! I think that feces would be contaminated only if the gut was.
` It is my opinion that any animal that is carnivorous, or omnivorous, will eat its own kind, even Homo s. sapien. Re: the Donner Party! There are many other examples.
` If they are not carrying disease, and are not dangerous to each other, after 6 years, what other reasons would make it a bad idea to keep them together? Why should an equally sized Anaconda be anymore dangerous to a Boa than another Boa. Anacondas are just overgrown Boas anyway, lol.
` I think in my community, the Ball is the most aggressive. He's usually on top!

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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

I am sure that you are correct in that no animals in your community enclosure are in any imminant danger, it is clearly obvious in that one picture that they are very much similar in size and infact all appear to be doing quite well. I do wonder if you feel there is any bennefit in such community? If so, what; and if not, why keep such a mix when it appears that your collection is large enough you could communally keep similar species together in the same amount of cages?

Thank you for your compliments, however I do not feel that they are necessary. Hiding behind a keyboard is not my style, and I will always stand behind every word I say, which is in part why I do not use a ficticious screen name. As mature and intelligent people I would hope we can realise that patience and openness are the road to understanding and indeed knowledge(for both ourselves and those who read these forums, as they are public domain). Indeed anyone who beleives that they have all the answers is either a teenager or a fool.

Gary D.
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I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

` These species are solitary critters. I'm sure they get no extra benefit from the community. Their husbandry is much more comprehensive, as I keep a special eye on that cage. I keep a couple of 48 inch and a couple of 36 inch cages empty, with heat and ready to go. I feed in them, but I like the option of empty cages, so I don't have to keep any snakes together if I feel it is contrary to their well-being.
` It is mostly for me. I like the idea that I can keep these critters satisfied enough that they have no impulse to bother each other. When I feed, I thaw enough food that it takes several hours. Their sense of smell is amazing. They start to hunt, and investigate every corner, and climb to the top. After a couple of hours, they are restless and when I open the cage, they come right out, and are willing to be moved to their feeding areas. The smallest Anaconda, who weighs less than the Ball, gets left in to be fed. He doesn't like to be handled. While he doesn't bite, he'll squirt. I'd rather be bitten.
` I should mention, I work at home, and have much time to devote to these animals. If I were working an 8 hour day, away from home, I probably would not have put them together in the first place. For the first year they were together, I monitored them almost constantly, until I was satisfied that they were in no danger.
` If I learned something on these forums, or elsewhere, that convinced me that there was danger to them, I would separate them.
` So far most of the input I get is from descendants of the Salem witch burners. Sometimes though, it is fun to shake the tree, then get out of the way, and watch the nuts fall out. That is why I complemented you, I am tired of hearing people rant and rave, with nothing of substance to say.

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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

` The snakes I have together, 3 male Yellow Anacondas, 1 Boa, and 1 Ball, I have had for years, almost 6. None of them have strong feeding response, except the Ball. Also, I had them separate long enough to know they weren't carrying any disease I could recognize, before putting them together. I have other large snakes that do not have the disposition to live with other snakes, in my opinion.
` If I have any doubts at all, and I mean ANY slight question, I DON'T do it. They can injure each other, or kill each other in a moment. I have a beautiful little pink Boa coming up to the right size to live with them. She's a tempermental cuss, and I'm not going to chance it. Don't think your Boa couldn't kill your Anaconda. They might act fine for a few days, or weeks, then disaster! They usually strike for the head, and eyes get damaged, permanently.
` Especially, don't do it if it is to make more cage space available for other critters.
` I just happened to have 5 very mellow snakes. They would climb in the same tree together, with no problems. That's when I tried putting them together.

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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

That give herping a bad bad name.

Ugh.
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Although I too am opposed to mixing of species, I do not understand how not adhering to "accepted" practices gives herping a bad name? To my knowledge he is not taking his animals out for a stroll to the park, nor feeding puppies to his snakes, or trying to show off to the media, etc. If you could please exlain your position, it would be appreciated.

GD
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I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

One might surmise that Mr. Favelle's poignancy stems from consensus amongst advanced keepers that snakes should be maintained individually (barring introduction for breeding) to reduce the serpents' stress, the possibility of cannibalism/other physical trauma and cross-parasitization...

- gatorboy
Animals For Education

Which were basically my thoughts previously posted. However I was wondering specifically how he felt it gave the hobby a black eye? Perhaps my interpretation of what constitutes a bad reputation and to whom is different than his.

GD
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I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

` Your points are interesting. Weat a hat.
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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

Dammit just the wrong time to make a typo.

Wear a hat.
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To Buddhist hot dog vendor. "Make me one with everything."

Snakes will always have a bad rap because of religious people. Dogs kill, cars kill, cats kill, fish kill, as long as there are ignorant people, there will be deaths from hobbies. As far as putting snakes together, how do you think people breed them? Or are you racist? Anaconda's are not good enough to be with Red Tail Boas? If they are all boas, or even pythons, and they do not hurt eachother who cares! People and pet stores keep different types of dogs, cats, lizards, frogs together, go scream at them!!!

I didn't put them together because of cages, I put them together because it looks better, plus they all like each other, the only problem I ever have is that after they eat they make a huge mess.
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16ft. Reticulated Python
9ft. Green Anaconda
8ft. Redtail Boa
6ft Redtail Boa
4.5ft Ball Python
4ft. Het. for Albino Reticulated python
4ft. Banded Calif. Kingsnake
3ft. Striped Calif. Kingsnake
Ball Python
Albino Burmese Python
Burmese Python
Nile Monitor
Green Iguana

` I know that mess!! LOL For around 10 days after I feed, I line the cage with a thick layer of newspaper. I need to change it every day, when they start eliminating their meal. Between the newspaper, and their soaking dish, very little gets deposited on the floor of the cage. I don't use substrate, just newspaper, but you could put newspaper over your substrate during the "purge". Mine like to get between the layers of paper and make nests. Usually, a bunch of them in a knot, coated with crap. When that phase is over, I go back to the regular set up.
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If you think education is expensive, consider the cost of ignorance.

When deciding if the snakes are compatible, do you factor in gender at all?
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-Steve-
2.0 Corn Snakes
1.0 Ball Python
0.1 Veiled Chameleon
1.1 Leopard Geckos
0.1 Rudis Chameleon
0.1 Giant Day Gecko
0.0.3 Red Ear Sliders
0.0.2 Sulcata Tortoises
0.0.1 Central American Banded Gecko

` Yes, but not so much for behavior. The females get so much larger, especially in Anacondas, and some Boas. I have no doubt that a large Boid might look at a smaller or weaker one as food.
` I had a female Yellow Anaconda in my community. She was the largest in there, but was no problem.....until last November, when she started mating with the three male Yellows. The Boa and the Ball had no impact on them, nor from them. Don't think I wasn't concerned. I decided to remove the Boa and Ball, then thought, Hell they wouldn't have started this hanky-panky if they'd been bothered by them. After 5 weeks, they were through, so I removed the female. She delivered her litter last month.
` Mating when not bothered by other males.

` Mating when other males are trying to get into the act.

` During mating, the male Anacondas were pushing, shoving and slapping each other, but no damaging behavior was observed. They just ignored the Boa and Ball.
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If you think education is expensive, consider the cost of ignorance.

` Yes, but not so much for behavior. The females get so much larger, especially in Anacondas, and some Boas. I have no doubt that a large Boid might look at a smaller or weaker one as food.
` I had a female Yellow Anaconda in my community. She was the largest in there, but was no problem.....until last November, when she started mating with the three male Yellows. The Boa and the Ball had no impact on them, nor from them. Don't think I wasn't concerned. I decided to remove the Boa and Ball, then thought, Hell they wouldn't have started this hanky-panky if they'd been bothered by them. After 5 weeks, they were through, so I removed the female. She delivered her litter last month.
` Mating when not bothered by other males.

` Mating when other males are trying to get into the act.

` During mating, the male Anacondas were pushing, shoving and slapping each other, but no damaging behavior was observed. They just ignored the Boa and Ball.
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If you think education is expensive, consider the cost of ignorance.

I guess if you think about it all keepers in the past has kept animals in certain ways that we may not think is good for the snake but how are you going to learn with out trial and error. So really with some and I dont mean all thing, if it works (if the animal is healty happy andin good shape)do it.

Jay

My comment is more on the tone and discussions within this post than the nature of the post itself. Except for the accusatory post below ("You people....yaddadayaddaya), this has been one of the more sane and reasonable posts on Kingsnake, within ANY forum. It's refreshing to hear poeple discuss differences without the attacks, personal jabs and name calling.
Your snakes, btw, look as UNstressed as any I've seen. I am NOT an expert, just a pet lover, and it's good to see an alternative to the mainstream husbandry that succeeds. Keep up the good work, and thank you all for your input.
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1.1 Ball Python
0.0.1 corn snake
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.2 fish
1.2 cats
3.1 kids
1.0 husband

Those snakes almost look "happy" together (relatively speaking of course). If it works for him, why knock it? Its obviously something that not every should try but who cares when the snakes are happy, healthy and safe?
I personally am amazed at what he has accomplished with his animals. Come on, how many hand fed anacondas have YOU ever seen?
I say "Good show".

` I just noticed your list of critters. I'd bet you don't sit around much, bored, and with nothing to do!! LOL

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If you think education is expensive, consider the cost of ignorance.

I can't WAIT to be bored!!!! You have some beautiful animals. Any other pics?
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1.1 Ball Python
0.0.1 corn snake
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.2 fish
1.2 cats
3.1 kids
1.0 husband

` I can't remember which pix I've already posted in this forum. I have one group of 20 here:
gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?thumb=1&stype=2&si=dfr&perpage=28&sort=3&cat=500&user=.

Each one opens up to a full-sized pic. Some of the pix I've already posted are from galleries other than this one.
` I treat each of my critters as an individual being. I hope my pix show that. Enjoy them.

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If you think education is expensive, consider the cost of ignorance.

I just want to say this was a very helpful discussion i asked the sane question over in the bp forum and dint get any very educated help untill a lovely person told me about this discussion going on thanks for all the opinions

1.3 ball pythons
1.0 bunny
0.1 bearded dragon
0.1 red tail boa
0.1 rose haired tarantula
0.1 kitten
0.0.30 gerbils (breeders for the snakes)
2.0 kids
1.0 husband
and way to many fish