Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all
I noticed something very peculiar about my EBT yearling Magnum. Since I brought my adult male EBT Dozer in for the winter, I've been spending a lot of time watching him to make sure he is adjusting to indoor living. Well, I had Magnum walking around the floor near Dozer's rubbermaid enclosure when the dogs started barking in the other room. This startled Dozer, who immediately closed his shell tight. Magnum, who is used to this commotion kept walking along.

Here is what piqued my interest: I don't recall ever seeing Magnum close his shell. My two adults can both seal their shells up very tight so I can hardly see their faces or legs. Magnum has been in my care since he was a hatchling. He is incredibly tame and fears nothing. I was wondering if perhaps his disposition is the reason for his lack of this normal box turtle behavior, or if it has something to do with his age.

So what it all comes down to is this: Do box turtles have to reach a certain age before they can close up their shells? Magnum's plastron is still quite flexible and rubbery. I'm wondering if he will be able to close his shell once it is more stiff. Also, at what age does the soft, pliable plastron of the hatchlings become hard and stiff like that of the adults? Thoughts, comments, solutions are welcomed I've included pictures I shot today of the little critter. Thanks in advance for any responses!

Magnum's flexible plastron (he hates being held like this):

This is as closed as I have ever seen his shell. I have never seen the lower "lip" of the plastron touch the edge of the carapace:

Also, I was wondering if his shell looks healthy. He has been an indoor turtle with short excursions outdoors during the summer months. Presently he lives in a 20 gal tank with UV lighting. Magnum's carapace:

One more, because I think he's cute!

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1.0.0 Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
0.1.0 Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
1.1.1 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum
0.1.0 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
0.2.0 Rats: Clementine and Elsie

The hinge starts to function when they are quite small, but not enough to close. That comes later.
They can close up completely by the time they are about 2"-2 1/2" long or so, HOWEVER, since pet hatchlings are used to being handled more often, they don't necessarily close up readily. Some babies certainly are more 'outgoing' than others, while others seem to be more timid.
Another factor that seems to influence how well they can close is overall growth: they seem to go through phases when they just can't quite 'fit' into their shells. Then a couple of weeks later, they can.

the hinge usually starts to form by 6 months of age, by which time the shell should be hard, are you supplying calcium and UV lighting to the juvi?
his shell should be hard by now.

>>the hinge usually starts to form by 6 months of age, by which time the shell should be hard, are you supplying calcium and UV lighting to the juvi?
>>his shell should be hard by now.

His carapace is hard but his plastron is still slightly rubbery around the edges. He has a UV light as well as a basking light. Also, he receives crickets and worms dusted with multivitamin supplement, in addition to the fruits, veggies, and floating aquatic pellets he has consumed since a hatchling. In addition, he is soaked about every 3 days in warm water treated with water conditioner. He seems happy and healthy. He's a voracious eater and his carapace look healthy to me, I just can't figure out why his plastron is still a little rubbery and why he never closes up.
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1.0.0 Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
0.1.0 Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
1.1.1 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum
0.1.0 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
0.2.0 Rats: Clementine and Elsie

In my opinion, his shell looks really good for a box turtle raised indoors. It is quite a struggle to get nice, even, solid shell growth on a box turtle in captivity. Nice job!

Sometimes, if I keep my young box turtles in a constantly wet environment for a while, their plastra soften. If Magnum doesn't have an area where he can completely dry out consistently, this could be one reason.

Overweight box turtles have a difficult time closing their shells completely. In my opinion, based on the pictures, Magnum is slightly overweight. It's difficult to see his muscle tone on his front and rear legs. Also, his eyes are bulging a little. This can be due to Vitamin issues and/or infection, but his eyes look very clear and healthy other than the swelling. Another explanation can be related to the fat pads behind the eyes. It's one reason why an anorexic turtle has sunken eyes...this fat pad shrinks. An overweight box turtle can have bulgy eyes due to these fat pads being enlarged. Don't panic, he may just need a little extra exercise. Sometimes, my box turtles his age (especially my ornates) will be overweight...bulgy eyes and all. When I move them outdoors to live, they trim down considerably. Mine are much more active outdoors.

He's a cute little guy. One question, do you know that he's a male?

Hi Ken,
Thanks for the reply
I keep Magnum in a 20 gallon tank with fir bark as substrate. He has a very shallow water dish for soaking, although he doesn't spend an exorbitant amount of time there. The tank is heated with a 100 watt bulb at one end, in conjuction with a 60 watt UV bulb. He gets misted once or twice a day to keep the humidity up. Most of the time he is hiding under his log in the cool part of the enclosure, or basking under the lamps. He likes to go from one extreme to the other - Ocassionally I will find him burrowed under the bark at the warm end of the tank. The year that he has been with me, he has always been in an enclosure much like this one, except for the first few months he was kept on a reptile rug instead of the substrate (He prefers the bark... he loves to dig and it's adorable to see him emerge from under his food bowl some mornings! )

>>Overweight box turtles have a difficult time closing their shells completely. In my opinion, based on the pictures, Magnum is slightly overweight.

I thought he looked a little pudgy. He's certainly not starving, although watching him eat, you would think that I never fed the little guy! I shot a video of him the other day at feeding time - as soon as the food is in his tank, he RUNS over to eat it! Perhaps I could cut back a little of his food in conjunction with more exercise outside of his tank? He's quite active to begin with but I could certainly spend more time with him strutting around my bedroom.

>>He's a cute little guy. One question, do you know that he's a male?

No. When I first got him he still had "his" egg tooth, so for the time being I just assigned him to a gender. I've never been able to keep a pet without naming it and when I first brought him home he would actually watch Magnum PI on the tv from his tank, LOL. That's how he got his name

Can you determine the sex of a turtle within the first two years? I've tried looking at the placement of the cloaca, but it's hard to determine if he might be a she. Any advice on sexing would be appreciated. Thanks a lot Ken.

Lisa
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1.0.0 Jack Russel Terrier: Skipper
0.1.0 Miniature Pinscher: Bambi
1.1.1 Eastern Box Turtles: Daisy, Dozer, and Magnum
0.1.0 Red Eared Slider: Rosie
0.2.0 Rats: Clementine and Elsie

It definitely seems like you've spent a lot of time and effort creating a nice enclosure for Magnum.

No, there is really no way to determine sex at this age. There are some cues that I've noticed, but nothing is certain until it's certain
Males may tend to show a pinkish or even whitish color to the eyes. It seems almost like they bleach out before they get the red color.
To me, the males always seem "flatter".
Their back feet may begin to increase in size faster than the front feet.
The new growth of the scutes where males are typically concave will incrementally step inward with each new growth spurt...some people call it "grooving out".
Brighter colors in a more ornate pattern may begin to develop on the head in males.

Females are very variable, so it's easier to try to look for cues that the turtle is a male. It can be a combination of different things, or you may never really be certain until he mounts another turtle or she lays eggs. It's also different between the subspecies. Magnum has coloration almost like a Gulf Coast, but I'm assuming that he/she is an Eastern.

If you know at what temperature the egg was incubated, you can get a percentage chance of the sex.

At about 4 to 5 inches, the characteristics should start showing either way. Remember, though, the default sex is female. If not much changes, Magnum is probably female.

Magnum P.I. hehe, you'll have to paste a fake mustache on him for a good photo-op. Thank you for sharing the pics!