Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings,
I am new to keeping EBTs and I have a question regarding brumation. I will be incubating indoors as I live far north of their native range. Most of my NA serpent collection is brumating comfortably at ~50-54 degrees Fahrenheit and I surmise that this would also be ideal for hatchling EBTs. I am just wondering what I should use for a substrate? How damp should the substrate be? Should there be a standing water source (such is the case with snakes)? How long should they stay in brumation? How long should the hatchlings go without food prior to emergence into brumation? Should they be cooled gradually (snakes can be put directly into brumation without gradual cooling and I am wondering if this is also true with EBTs)?
Thanks for any and all help anyone can provide!
Kind regards.

I believe most keepers agree that box turtle hatchlings should not be brumated untill atleast 3 years old, after which point a gradual decrease in temp to about 45 degrees F, the animal should fast for 2-4 weeks prior to cooling, soaked daily to empty the gut, once the animal is brumtating since this is an artificial set up you will want to soak and weight the animal 1-2 times a month, the water temp should be about the same as the temp of the substrate.
for substrate I use sphagnum peat moss and soaked leaves, you will want to keep this moist.

Thank you very much for the reply!
Is there a naturally high mortality rate due to hibernation in wild populations? I ask because it stands to reason that hatchlings are hibernating in their native range and I wonder what the reasoning is behind the recommendation to only hibernate at 3 years of age.
Thanks!

It is tough to say definitively, as it is nearly impossible to track wild hatchling box turtles for the purpose of research. Most indications are that mortality is very, very high during at least the first year of life. The causes are unclear, and probably numerous. Researchers have been getting promising results from inserting pit tags (microchips) into hatchling turtles (incredible, isn't it!?). As far as I know, they've been doing it with Bog turtles and Western Pond turtles. It very well may be possible with Box turtles, so we'll see! If a microchip is possible, it's not unreasonable to expect technology to lead us to pit tag sized tracking devices. My feeling is that many tracking efforts on hatchlings would lead you to a nice pile of raccoon scat. Sad, but true.

Most keepers I've spoken with who have tried to hibernate hatchling box turtles (and many other species) in the captive situation have had higher hatchling mortality. Personally, I've noticed a difference, but it hasn't been nearly as stark as I had earlier suspected. It is still unclear as to whether witholding brumation early in life has any negative impact later in life.

Please, if you decide to brumate your charges, report back as to how it goes. Do you brumate your hatchling or neonate snakes?

Here's a wonderful link to many of the aspects of box turtle care. Happy reading! Thanks for visiting. By the way, we love to see pictures!

http://boxturtlesite.org/bxbook.html

hatchling T.c.c.

Thanks for the reply!
I actually study turtle life history for my graduate work. However, my study organisms are Spiny Softshells, Blanding's, Northern Maps, Spotteds, Midland Painteds, and Common Snapping turtles. I have radio-tracked adult Spotteds and Spiny Softshells and implant PIT tags in Spiny Softshells for population estimates. I am particularly interested in the relative demographic unimportance of early stage life history and factors associated with nest site selection and threats and limiting factors to embryo hatching success. Though mortality is high in early stages (compared to a greater than 0.98 annual survival rate in most adult turtles), I have yet to see reported data indicating environmental causes as a significant threat (the species would not range where they do if winter conditions were not conducive to successful hibernation).
Thanks again for the reply! I am going to hibernate them at 45 degrees Fahrenheit as I do prefer to emulate natural conditions as much as possible. However, I will likely not have them stay down as long as I would an adult (perhaps 2-3 months). I will keep everyone here apprised of the progress.
Yes, I do brumate my neonate North American snakes.
Kind regards.

"I actually study turtle life history for my graduate work. However, my study organisms are Spiny Softshells, Blanding's, Northern Maps, Spotteds, Midland Painteds, and Common Snapping turtles."

Blandings and Spotteds are two of my very favorite chelonians. I like them all, but I'm partial to a special few. I'd love to spend a day just watching Blandings. Being a resident of the mid-Atlantic region of the US, the only wild Blandings I've seen was a road rescue on the PA/OH border. I was a teen, and more concerned with ladies at that moment. I didn't realize that Blandings are assumed to be extirpated from PA. I've seen hundreds of Spotteds, but it's still a thrill to find these little gems. Based on the species in your study area, why no NA Wood turtles? SORRY TO GET OFF THE BOX TURTLE TOPIC.

"Thanks again for the reply! I am going to hibernate them at 45 degrees Fahrenheit as I do prefer to emulate natural conditions as much as possible."

I like the way your phrased that! "...emulate...as much as possible." So many times, I've heard people say that they will or won't do something because, "That's how it is in nature." I love to hear people say, "I'll feed them what they'd naturally eat in nature." I'd love to see someone try to do that. It would be nearly impossible. We haven't even scratched the surface as to all of the things that chelonians eat in nature...except a few dietary specialists. Even then, have the entire gut contents of the prey items been analyzed? But, with a few things, we do what we can. When it comes down to it, there is really nothing natural about captivity. All we can do is try to "emulate...as much as possible." I enjoyed your posts. Thanks!

"Blandings and Spotteds are two of my very favorite chelonians. I like them all, but I'm partial to a special few. I'd love to spend a day just watching Blandings. Being a resident of the mid-Atlantic region of the US, the only wild Blandings I've seen was a road rescue on the PA/OH border. I was a teen, and more concerned with ladies at that moment."
Since I don't have any photos of the EBTs, here are some Blanding's photos from the wild. An adult and a hatchling yawning after sticking it's head out of the egg for the first time!

"Based on the species in your study area, why no NA Wood turtles?"
My study site is a large body of water. Wood turtles like fast flowing water like rivers and streams so they don't occur in my study area.
Cheers!

Great pics! They're absolutely beautiful turtles.

I'm suprised that Spotted turtles occur in your large body of water. You may be stunned one day to find a Wood turtle hanging out in your study area. I've found them everywhere from xeric upland habitats to sphagnum bogs!

Here's a captive bred Blandings.

Of course wild turtle hatchlings overwinter on their own and survive, but, since not alot is known about young box turtles and their exact needs, most people recommend NOT allowing them to brumate/hibernate in a captive setting.

That having been said, I have 4 young turtles in my care here (in Virginia) that overwintered outdoors for their first winter. It is quite possible that they simply stayed in the nest after hatching and emerged in the spring.

I would think that using the same guidelines one would follow for brumating/hibernating adults would be acceptable for younger turtles: temperatures at about 45F (55F is not low enough for an adult), moist environment to prevent dehydration, etc., as Rouen described.

..