Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm thinking of getting another monitor in the future and wanted to know what's the closest thing to a Komodo Dragon. I'm looking for something that looks a lot like a Komodo and close to the same size. Something with that majestic, prehistoric look. A decent temperament would be a bonus, of course, but I realize that could be pushing it, dreaming.

I've got over 30 years experience with snakes and I've always wanted a Komodo. Before anyone jumps on that last statement let me say that I am aware there are differences of husbandry between snakes & monitors. I've got a Nile Monitor that I bought in July and so far its doing good.

I'm going to wait a few more months before getting anything else just to make sure I get things right with the Nile, even though I'm confident in what I'm doing. (Confident, not cocky.)

I can use the time between now & then to research and prepare for whatever I decide on.

I'll welcome & appreciate any/all constructive input.

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

The closest I know of would be an asian water monitor. Your nile will get pretty huge though.

Thanks, sport, but that looks too much like a Nile for me. I'm looking for something more of a solid color and heavier body. Don't get me wrong, I like my Nile Monitor and know that it will get big enough for me, its just that I want to get as close to a Komodo Dragon as I can. In more ways than one, too.

I do appreciate your help, though!

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

get a lace from FR, you cant get any closer to a Komodo. next will be tri-colored.

a few yrs ago 6 komodos were on the market i believe from diamond reptiles.... the were sold to someone on the canary islands at $40,000 a piece. this the real deal.....

Then why don't you just get a komodo?

didn't it take some guy like 10-20 years to get a komodo breeding pair?
it was in issue of Reptiles a few months back, and it was his life long dream... he went thru alot of political contacts and several year paperwork terms.. i dunno, are yellows anything like a lace?
hmm, in my opinion komodos have a drab color, but, when they are young, ooooo they are cute and colorful
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Christian M. Hidalgo
The Woodlands, TX 77381

I am aware of how difficult they are to get, but if this guy wants one sooo bad, you'd think he would do whatever he had to in order to get one. If I have my mind set on something like that, there is no replacement.

Apparently I was wrong with the water monitor. Sorry for the misinformation. The lacie wins.

"...but if this guy wants one sooo bad..."

I don't recall ever saying that I wanted a Komodo Dragon "sooo" bad. You must have me confused with someone else. But that's OK, we all make mistakes.

However, yes, I would love to have one. And the reason I don't run on down to Petsmart & pick up a few? (Availability Restrictions Legalities Beauracracy more Red Tape Money) x Thousands = Too much to pay for ANY animal.

I do like the lace. I haven't had a chance to check out some of the others mentioned but I will, soon.

"Thank you" to all of you for your input! I appreciate it.

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

The asian water monitor is the second most largest next to the komodo dragon and they do dull out as they get older i had an asian water monitor for about 20 years and i maxed out in about seven feet and it weighed at 135Lbs befor it passed 2 years ago. I hope this answers your question. SnakemanDave

Thanks, SnakemanDave!
What was its temperament like?

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

WOW...!!! thats a very big water....

would you have some pics of it...??? it must be awesome..??
thanks

Rick

The Lace monitor (appearance and genetic testing) and then the croc monitor. Both have teeth the same but hollow for lighter bodied prey, the komodos teeth are solid and double serrated edge. Look at a Lacie, you will see no doubt at that point.
Next Id say the gouldi complex, take a look at these teeth (5ft argus male).
In fact if you look at a young komodo it looks almost exactly like the lace monitor.
No, the nile is related to the bosc, albig, and other Africans, closer related to the Griseus, and Yemeni monitor. The Asian water monitor is a different family.
They think the komodo decended from either the Lace or a similar ancestor that went island hopping.

Thanks, SHvar!
You don't have a good picture of that 5-ft argus handy, do ya? I saw one pic that was posted in the monitor picture gallery within the last few months and had another 6-ft monitor in it, as well.

What is that one's temperament like?

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Here he is with a 3ft female.

An old picture of Sobek with him.

Yeah. That top pic gives me a better idea of the way they look. How's his disposition?

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Argus.
He was a rescue, some former pro football players pet. Hes dead now, Im not sure what happened to him. The rescue misses him much, he was a good captive.

Where did you get that tub?

Thanks
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child -coming soon-

Its made by reptiletubs. They arent the easiest to get a hold of. Their containers are very thick, heavy and strong. They come in several sizes. Its just over 4.5ft long, 2ft wide, and about 1.5ft tall. Their prices are actually pretty good.

Now that I go back and take a look. I guess it is just a really dirty VE-175, Thanks.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child -coming soon-

Crocodile monitors get around the same size as komodos. They dont look very smimilar though. Tegus are prtty darn cool and have a heavier build but wont get anywhere close to the size of a komodo nor do they look anything like them.

Corcodile monitors may get very long but they don't come near to matching the mass of a komodo.

Thanks, adkirsonis & ztous!
I appreciate your input and your taking the time to try to help me decide.

Know of a good picture of an adult crocodile monitor?

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I can't thank everyone enough for all of the good input ya'll have given me. Its very valuable to me. Thank you, all!

I was looking through the monitor picture gallery late last night for pictures of adults of each recommendation. I'm on dial-up so it took me awhile to get to page 23 of the gallery. I'll pick up from there this evening, when I get the time.

If any of you have a link to a picture of an adult of any of these I would sure appreciate it as that would cut down a lot of time searching.

After reading all of the input given I've pretty much come to the conclusion that color doesn't matter much, either way. I'm also willing to sacrifice a few feet in overall length. My main goal is the body mass, shape, similar to the Komodo.

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Please understand, there is nothing close to a Komodo. No even the slightest. And your not going to be allowed to have a KD, period.

Next, you really need to develop keeper skills if you WANT to do any large species "justice". That is, give them a life other then a life of extreme confinement.

Theres that new black monitor that came in a few years ago, you see them on the Classifieds, now and again. They were advertised as the closet varanid to KD's. But those also are not meant for beginers or for a token "PET" either. They are all wild caught and value freedom over captivity and do not like humans all that much.

As an experienced keeper, I have not heard or read anything from or about you that qualifies you to keep any large species. With that in mind, why don't you start out with a smaller species and learn how to keep them successfully(as opposed to simply keeping them confined) I am sure once you gain experience, you will realize you really are not equipped to keep KD's or the like. V.storri, are like little tiny KD's in build color and attitude. You could get some of them and take them several generations in captivity to learn basic varanid behavior. Then work your way up.

Just to start, do you have a temp and humidity controlled cage, say 20ft by 20ft or larger? complete with large basking areas(the size of the montiors body is minimum), usable substrate, etc etc. Remember, for a large monitor, that sized cage is minimum, not maximum. Cheers

"Please understand, there is nothing close to a Komodo. No even the slightest."

I'm finding that out. Nothing seems to come close to the majestic look they have.

And I knew that, legally, and probably any other way, too, a Komodo was out of the question. That's why I'm not asking where I can get a Komodo.

"Next, you really need to develop keeper skills if you WANT to do any large species "justice". That is, give them a life other then a life of extreme confinement."

Agree! That's why I said it would be at least several months from now. Giving me time to evaluate my experiences with my Nile, to keep from endangering more than one animal. I think I'm doing a good job with my Nile but only time will tell.

"As an experienced keeper, I have not heard or read anything from or about you that qualifies you to keep any large species."

Good point. Not trying to be a smarty, but, on the flip side of that, up to this point, you haven't heard or read anything to the contrary, either, have you? Have I successfully kept any large monitor species? No. Now, there's a weak point that you now know for sure. For the sake of learning, as well as the care of my animals, I won't pretend to be anything I'm not.

"With that in mind, why don't you start out with a smaller species and learn how to keep them successfully..."

Good idea. I'll definitely consider this. While I've been successful with anoles, a spiny lizard and an iguana, I realize there's a difference between them and monitors. Actually, my Nile was purchased as my "step up" since the price was right. Its not that I feel any animal is expendable, quite the opposite, but, if I do make mistakes that end up being detrimental to its health, I'm not out much money.

With keeping snakes, I didn’t start out with Pythons. Growing up in central FL, I started with eastern hog nose, corns, yellow rats, etc.... So I see your point and will consider it.

” I am sure once you gain experience, you will realize you really are not equipped to keep KD's or the like.”

Uhh….., isn’t that a baseless assumption? I mean, for all you know, I could have the resources to go as far as having a 30’ x 50’ professional enclosure built on my 150 acres of woods and hire a specialist to take care of them. Yeah, even though that’s possible, it is stretching it a bit, eh?

Now this puts me in the predicament of sharing a few of my qualifications, which will be viewed by some as bragging. I do have 150 acres of wooded area, including aprox. 3 – 4 acres of pasture, and the 1-plus-acre of yard surrounding my house. No, I don’t have a 20 x 20 temperature & humidity-controlled enclosure. Not yet, at least. I don’t feel that an 18-inch Nile Monitor needs one. However, I have talked to a few builders and have a few rough estimates of a 15 x 15.

I do have a converted 13.5ft x 17ft garage that I currently use for storage and in the process of converting into my snake room. With a few modifications it could house a large monitor and I could put my snakes in another room I have available.

The main thing is, I do still need some experience. Hands-on experience. That I won’t deny. I closely monitor my Nile, even to the point of a few notes/records here & there. I don’t know anywhere near all I need to know and will most likely, at some point or another, will have post questions here regarding its care.

This is not an impulse buy. I'm here gathering info for further research while I gain experience with what I have.

If I said anything the wrong way or offended you in any way, it was not my intention, at all. I was hoping you would drop by & do what you did, give me some good tips.

Thank you!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Again no offense intended, but there are very very few people who are qualified to keep KD's or other large monitors, in the U.S. Please consider, being able to afford and build a proper enclosure and the continued operation of that facility are entirely two different things.

One major difference between monitors and other reptiles is, they are far more expensive to operate(own and allow progress) then to purchase. Most other reptiles can be expensive to purchase, but are inexpensive to own. No so with monitors.

I could go on and on, but that is not necessary.

Having a nile and not having it die, is a far cry from understanding large monitors. While its never about value, or it should not be. There are other types of value then monitory. For instance, if a monitor is rare in captivity, should it go to someone with money or to someone with successful experience? Being rare, has more values. As in, should a novice keep rare monitors(i.e. bluetrees, etc)just because they can afford the price?

Before you can even imagine keeping large monitors, you should understand that monitors grow quickly, very quickly, they attempt to grow as large as they can and attempt to reproduce as much as they can. That is their design. They are suppose to do that. In all really large monitors are by far the easist to breed. Except for one thing, they require lots of resources. As in, space, energy costs, and dietary support.

If you had experience, you would understand, there is no place in the continental U.S. that escapes this. You simply cannot put them outside and feed them(a big fat dream many keepers have had and attempted) You really need to get far closer to the equator for that dream.

So until you show success with you nile. You know quickly raise it up(full size in a year or two) take it throught many seasons. Changing of the seasons seems to knock off many captive large monitors. And learn how to keep them in pairs or groups(your not considering all this for one solitary individual pet are you?) You really have not done much. Just kept a monitors heart beating, but did you give it a life??

I hope you entertain some of these thoughts, cheers

These were also good, legit points, FR. Thank you for taking the time to share them. Know that you're not only causing me to think, but many others that are silently reading these posts. I'll thinking about these as well as all the others, from you, and from everyone else.

Just to make sure I didn't give the wrong impression, while I can afford to build & maintain a sufficient enclosure, I cannot afford to pay a specialist to run/maintain it. Even if I could, I doubt I would. That would be about like buying a Harley Davidson and paying someone to ride it for you.

"Having a nile and not having it die, is a far cry from understanding large monitors...............
...........Just kept a monitors heart beating, but did you give it a life?? "

I understand what you mean and I agree. Some people have a way with animals, born with that special gift. I'll leave it at that. I feel that the ability to read in between the lines and to sense things is important to understanding.

"your not considering all this for one solitary individual pet are you?"

Actually, yes, I have.

"And learn how to keep them in pairs or groups"

In your other reply you mentioned something about bringing a smaller species through several generations to learn basic varanid behavior. I don't have any intentions, at the moment, to breed any monitors. I feel that there are enough breeders and too many unqualified buyers (more unqualified than anyone may feel I am. This is especially true in my neck of the woods.).

A monitor's social life (with other monitors) is a debate within itself. Or, any animal's social life, as far as that goes. I had a brother and always thought people that were the "only child" missed out on a lot of things. But the more people that were "only child" that I talked to showed me what I missed out on, too. You can't miss something you've never had. BUT, I also feel that a social life is important. I'm kind of stuck, like: Danged if you do, danged if you don't. I've also seen a lot of posts where monitors didn't seem to want company, at any given time. But, like I said, that's a whole 'nother debate, within itself.

Thanks for taking the time to give your input. I appreciate it.

Take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

N/P

Heeheehee!!!
Yeah, I thought he took it pretty easy on me, too.

Actually, I think he did a good job. He was just slightly abrasive to ward off the weak, but not too rough to where someone would blow him off & not consider what he said. A nice touch of both and a job well done, FR.

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I have survived my first encounter with the Dragon.

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Please understand this, I mention breeding because, its without question the direct intention of monitors to pair up and reproduce. The myrid of behaviors they exhibit doing so, is what they live for.

Yes, I have heard of the solitary monitors, many speak of. That is just not my experience, not in captivity nor in nature. In my opinion, their lifes drive is to pair up.

Unfortunately in nature and in captivity not every individual is fortunate enough to have that occur. But that does not mean its not their goal.

I have had no problems with monitors pairing up. It seems it takes physically healthy and mentalling healthy monitors to do so(common sense hey?) If you keep a monitor in solitary confinement its entire life and do not give it oppertunity to know others of its own kind, you should not expect that monitor to behave in any normal way. That is true with people, dogs, birds and all kinds of animals. Its also true of monitors.

More later gotta go, Cheers

"common sense hey?"

That stuff is amazing. A little dab will do ya. But unfortunately, it seems to be hard to find these days. I think a lot of its due to not being around animals before. Heck, my brother was an animal. At least, sometimes I thought so.

You wouldn't by chance be in the southeast & going to the Atlanta show this weekend, would ya? If so, save your fingers from typing, I'll look you up there.

Later!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Well, for size and bulk, the water monitor. We had one about 20 years ago, fresh import, that we nursed back to health. 7'6" with some missing tail. Became as tame as a kitten, but went where HE wanted to. Ate whole turkey drumsticks or medium to smaller rabbits whole (freshly killed). Survived another 5-6 years as an adult. For attitude...Croc monitor.....
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.0 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

The closest thing to a Komodo dragon IS the Asian water monitor. If you've ever seen a baby Komodo, they look exactly like a young Asian water monitor or Nile monitor. They have the same spots and markings. As they get older, their coloring fades. The same is true with the water monitor. Often, their color fades, and I have seen some that look exactly like a Komodo. A good example of a water monitor that looks like a Komodo is in the movie "The Freshman", starring Matthew Broderick and Marlon Brando. They used a water monitor because they are more tame than a Komodo and they look alike.

Thanks, Mikesnake, for your input. I'm trying to find as many pictures as I can of adults of each species mentioned here. Looks like its going to take me a few days before I can get it narrowed down to what I'm looking for.

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

You need to look up some more pictures. Komodos and Asian Water Monitors look nothing alike. They're both bulky and large lizards, that's about it. Look up pictures as hatchlings and adults. Do they really look alike?

Starting with a animal that can cause "great bodily harm" is a bad idea.

This was a pic of my water monitor, Phil.
I had him for about 15 years & had aquired him at about 4 years old. Awesome lizard, tame, friendly, & trustworthy. It really hurt to lose him last summer. I never did have luck breeding him - went through 3 or 4 different females. I really think he didn't know what to do with the girls, plus he dwarfed all but one of them.
If you want a nice, big monitor as a "pet", I'd go with the Asians.
I've heard of tame Niles, but they're few & far between.
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Max

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"I got out of the business because it's almost impossible to do business without breaking a law some place, whether you knowingly do it or not."
Tom Crutchfield

Nice Water Monitor! I can imagine how devasted you must've been to lose it.

I'm taking my time researching each species. As I said in my original post, I'm only "thinking" about getting one, several months down the road from now. I could've bought a nice Water Monitor last weekend at the Atlanta show but I'm not ready for one and my mind's not made up as to whether or not I will be getting another Monitor.

There have been a lot of good points made in this thread and I hope anyone considering getting a Monitor will take each one into consideration. Recommendations have been made, based on perspective/opinion and I don't feel that any made so far are "wrong".

As for a "tame Nile", that's just about an oxymoron, isn't it? Yes, there are some, but, few & far between, like you said. I jokingly call mine "VN", short for: Vile Nile. I have made some progress, though. Takes a lot of patience and self-control. Does it still try to bite? You betcha! But not as much. It calms down quicker and isn't as flighty, now.

Thanks for sharing!

Ya'll take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.