Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am looking around for Cinnys for a Pewter project next season. They appear to come in two colors regular (tan) and really orangey - at least as babies (as far as I can tell).

As adults do they all end up the same color - do the orange ones hold their orange? And which is better for a pewter project or does it not matter?

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Tosha

i thought that the orange ones were actually black pastels. and the tan were the cinnys. i might be wrong. ive also heard that the black pastels make "better" pewters and super cinnys. i was told by a breeder that the black pastel is a stronger gene, and eliminates the jaw deformities in the super form. again this is all second hand info.
good luck

You are backwards in your statement. The black pastels seem to be quite black/tan as babies..........not too much orange........and the cinnies appear to be more tan than the black pastels.

As far as the comment on Black pastels being a stronger gene........thats abit far fetched in my honest opinion. If you do you homework.........you will find that of all the super cinnamon/super black pastels....none of the reported super cinnies have ever had a birth deformity as in the bubble nose or cleft lips/pallets...I know Graziani, Myself, BHB, David Thompson as well as a few other have produced a good number of Super Cinnamons and all were flawless! THe same cant be said for the black pastels........the original two produced by Gulf COast Reptiles had very bad clefts.......they still sold for exobitant amounts of money...but they were flawed........there were also other black pastel crosses that came out deformed.......Amir purchased I believe a silver bullet this past year from the black pastel line.......this snake has a very badley deformed face.

I have seen 5 deformed animals from various "Black Pastel" lines......and none from the "Cinnamon Pastel" lines............

Take this however you want to...but this is 1000% honest information for whomever wants it.

Jared Horenstein

thanx for clearing that up. you would know better than me for sure. i wish i could think of the name of the guy who told me otherwise. he had a super cinny with a ringer tail at tinley park. that snake was AWESOME, and no deformities. so, bottom line is that the cinny is the stronger gene, as compared to black paster?

one more thing. it looked to me that the baby super cinny in kevins book had the bubble nose. he also stated in the book that super cinnys had some problems with this.
right????????????

I only know of one super cinny with a AWESOME ringer tail and that snake was produced by Jared, I am not sure if he was at the tinley park show, But I did see that snake at the Daytona show, So if it is the same snake maybe you got confused by what was told to you. Thanks David
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www.Snakebstr.com -- Remember the Name it's in the Game!!! the Ball game that is

www.Snakebstr.com

WRONG !!!
WRONG... The only time I was WRONG is when I thought I was WRONG but I was really RIGHT.....LOL...LOL...LOL

Amir had it up there for me.

I can't agree with you Jared for two reasons. I have seen every super black that GCR has at their facility and everyone is perfect, maybe they keep the perfect ones. Yes tweeked babies do hatch out from the black line occasionally but they come from the cinny line just as often. I've personally seen 3 tweaked super cinny's. For someone to say that the cinny line does not produce tweaked babies is a marketing ploy and nothing else.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

First off........for you to think that was a marketing ploy.....is beyond rediculous.......I have nothing to gain from trying to promote a project that I produce only 2-3 clutches of. I am not a big breeder......I am not promising to make any killer deals......I am saying what I know to be true. Ask Gulfcoast about the first 2 super labyrinths that they made.......thats what they were calling their line before the others were proven..........They hatched out 2 supers.......the first 2 black snakes........both had cleft lips and the "bubble nose". Both snakes sold for quite a bit of $ and pprobably ended up being bred themselves to other morphs to make new combos.....while possibly passing along that problem.........

I have not seen in person nor in a posting on the internet of a deformed super cinny........I am on regularly, but that does not mean that I could have missed it..........but I havent seen any that I can recall.....

ANyway.....thats my observations........

From photos I've seen and collected of a bunch of different Super Cinnamons/Super Black Pastels, they all seem to have 'odd' noses.

Even the Grazianis' Silver Bullets appear to have an odd looking nose.
(Check out photos on their 'Collection' section of their webpage. You'll also notice they have a 'ringer' type Super Cinny like yours. Ringer or Paradox, I'm not sure which is a better term for theirs, since the 'ringer' section of their one Super Cinny looks like a faded chunk of normal Cinnamon pattern.)

Click the link in my post and scroll down for photos of the Grazianis' Silver Bullet(s) and John Berry's Silver Bullet. I'm guessing John's Silver Bullet was produced using a line of Black Pastel.
Check out the photos and judge for yourself if they have odd noses. They look odd to me.

From photos I've collected over the years Supers of the following lines appear (atleast in photos) to have 'odd' noses:

Gulf Coast (Labyrinth)
BHB (Cinnamon)
Ralph Davis (Ralph calls em Cinnamons, but they look Blk Pastels)

As well, the Super Cinny (unsure which line, sorry) that Prehistoric Pets posts in the classifieds, and the Super Cinnys David Thomson produced (BHB line) in 2005 both appear to have the 'odd' nose.

This post is not meant in ANY WAY to poopoo on anyone's line of Cinny or Black Pastel. Just want to clarify.
Funky noses or not, I still love the Super Cinnys like a fat kid loves pie.

BB
Photo Link

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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

Jared my comment wasn't aimed at you and I should have clarified that and I appologize how it sounded. What I meant was those that produce large amounts of any of the lines that state theirs does not produce tweaked animals at all are liers. It's something that is going to be a constant with this morph and through selective breeding and outcrossing the lines maybe we as breeders will be able to minimize the severity of the tweaking.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!