Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I was wondering what the best way would be to setup a quarantine tank for leaf chameleons that would also be the most comfortable for them. My first idea would be just to take my 18 gallon, make a very simple false bottom, supersoil, take some branches and twigs, leaf litter, and maybe some fake plants that can be cleaned later on.
It would be even better if anyone had an idea that was maybe even more simplistic as I intend tear it down after a couple weeks and clean/throw everything away to reduce parasites from sticking around.
Also since they will be imported, what are some opinions on using fenbendazole during the quarantine period?

Thanks,
Dustin

IMHO a couple of weeks isn't long enough to quarantine chameleons....it needs to be more like a couple of months...especially if you are dealing with WC's.

Also, to dose them with fenbendazole, you need to know the dosage. Unless you have a fecal done, you won't even know what parasites they have (if any) and the parasites might not be killed by fenbendazole. I don't believe in "shotgunning". The meds can be hard on them too....so why give them unless its needed?

Thanks for your response. I see now I wasn't clear about how long they would be in quarantine. I meant that I was going to tear down the quarantine, and wash/throw out old materials and replace with new/clean every couple weeks. I was expecting 1 1/2-2 months or longer if it seemed like they needed it.
To be more specific about the medication I was going to use, it's the powdered fenbendazole at fryebrothersfrogs.com. Dr. Frye claims you can use it once weekly almost like a supplement. I would rather avoid medication as much as possible, so I only want to use it during quarantine.
Since these are WC, it's virtually guaranteed they will be carrying a parasite load. I just want to get rid of the worms that would burden them the most, and if they are fine otherwise I will leave them as is.

-Dustin

I read what Dr. D. Frye said about frogs...but it wasn't the site you directed me to...I couldn't open it. He was talking about dosing frogs weekly because the rate at which the parasites cycled needed it to be done that way in order for the frogs to be free of parasites when they were removed from quarantine.

You said..."Since these are WC, it's virtually guaranteed they will be carrying a parasite load. I just want to get rid of the worms that would burden them the most, and if they are fine otherwise I will leave them as is"...as I said, using any parasite medication without knowing what, if any, parasites are involved won't guarantee to get rid of the parasites. I have dealt with a lot of WC chameleons over the years (and still do) and although there are risks of them having parasites quite a few of the ones I have had didn't have any. Many of the necropsies showed no parasites either.

There is another risk too...if the parasite load is particularly heavy when the parasites are killed off, they leave the chameleon's system to deal with the dead bodies and sometimes it causes toxic shock to the chameleon when the load is too heavy. A chameleon's body doesn't "recognize" the parasites as something to get rid of, but it does "recognize" the dead bodies and has to get rid of them. I always let my chameleons get used to captivity first for a month or so and then treat them....unless its apparent that the chameleon is not able to wait. This is said to allow the parasite load to decrease and should make treatment easier on the chameleons.

Hi Kinyonga,

Your idea of waiting a month before using any medication sounds pretty solid to me. If they are in otherwise good shape I will follow that advice.
On the website, Frye says the powder is the initial treatment for the worms and after the powder is used then its safe to use the more potent liquid de-wormer(which I wont be using). But the powder shouldn't cause the septic shock you are talking about. here's the link to the page for you: http://www.fryebrothersfrogs.com/page3.htm you will have to scroll down some.
Getting back to my original question, if anyone has a good idea for a simplistic quarantine setup I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Dustin

For a quarantine tank, and treating for parasites in mind, I would just get a 20g plastic bin and lay some reptile carpet at the bottom of it. Put some cleaned potted plants in there (ficus, umbrella, pothos) – either cover the top of the pots with small stones or better yet replace the soil with super soil since you have it. Also go outside and get some sticks – some small some large – make sure some sticks are small enough for them to comfortably grip. Clean the sticks in the bath tub before using them. Lastly, put a fluorescent fixture across the top with a 2.0 or a used 5.0 bulb. Obviously make sure no sticks or plants are high enough for them to get out. You want minimal soil – to better prevent parasites hanging out in the soil and getting reintroduced to the cham. This is just a larger scale version of what I use for neonate pygmies.

Mist them a couple times a day – really well in the morning and make sure the temps are around 75F. It should be pretty humid and wet in there after you mist but let it dry out and try to avoid humidity lower then 50. Your age/description was a bit confusing. If they around 2 months old then they will be pretty small – so maybe a 10g setup as I described.

That setup is easy to clean each week. I personally don’t treat for parasites – if you feed them well and take good care of them you may have it for a year to two with them just living with the parasites. Most WC’s I get die within a year – I sometime keep them for 1.5 or a bit longer but 2/3 die within a year for various reasons.

To effectively treat pygmies, you need fecals and maybe blood work done – several times. You may have to use several meds – some need may need to be given daily. If you are new to pygmies – this may be a bit difficult to do. Also keep in mind that if they are WC then they most likely have parasites – so it’s almost a given that the vet is going to find some. In the end it will be a long stressful process.

Where do you live? Is WC your only option? CB is readily available in the states.

-roo

Hi Roo, thanks for your reptly. I was hoping I may get some pointers from you.
I'm not new to stump-tails, but I'm not an expert either-otherwise I wouldn't be asking for advice I have kept and bred 1.2 R. brevicaudatus, 1.3 R. temporalis, and B. superciliaris before they were on cites 2. I never bred the Brookesia, the single female I had was already gravid when I got her.
I like your idea of using reptile carpet and potted plants. I have made my leaf chameleon quarantines much more elaborate in the past for the sake of keeping them comfortable, and they have been a pain to tear down and replace material. 1 1/2 was about average for the lifespan of the rhampholeon I've kept, with the superciliaris only reaching just over a year.
I'm already looking into getting fecals done. I live in the San Francisco bay area, and there is at least one good reptile vet I know of in Berkeley. I'm most concerned about lessening the worm load, as from what I've read they are the most likely candidate of shortening lifespan (tell me if i'm wrong).
They are a pair of B. superciliaris that I should recieve on Tuesday, obviously wc. My goal with treating them is to get them to live as long as possible while trying to get them to breed. Thanks for the quarantine idea!

-Dustin

Ok, I thought you were getting brevs. Being that they are brooks, then yeah you probably should take some measures to reduce parasites since they are a rare import. Even though I have done nothing with my brooks and probably should.

I would just go with the reptile carpet setup – it keeps water from pooling and holds humidity – and easy to clean – just soak everything once a week. Being that they are brooks, I would put some pretty thick sticks in there – wide enough for them to hide behind. Good luck with them.

-roo