Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I am about to start a cage buildling project. I will be making 12 cages that are 4x2x2 (for starters). If that goes well, I will probably double that again, and then get to work on some 3x2x2s.

I have started this project numerous times, but have always given in and bought plastic cages ultimately. Two things have always reared their ugly head:

1) I don't own a tablesaw, so I rely on the 'experts' at HD to cut my stock. Needless to say, this leads to problems. I will be purchasing a table saw this time.

2) Waterproofing...read on..

Ok, so my criteria are (in order of importance):
1) Functionality for the Animals (Morelia Pythons)
2) Functionality for their Indentured Servant Homo Sapien
3) Construction should be as simple as possible, because the afore mentioned homo sapien is not that 'handy'. No precision miter cuts, no routing, no biscuits (whatever those are-lol)...
4) Cost

Looks, Weight, and Durability figure in, but as lesser criteria.

I know the design (more or less) that I will be using. The cages will essentially be 5 slabs screwed and glued. Sliding Glass Doors, and Some 1x dams and baffles.

My major problem relates to waterproofing. Here are my questions/dilemas:

1) Can Hdpe be drilled/screwed? (Hardware recommendations?)If it can be (as long as the material is not extrodinarily expensive) screwed, then the rest of my questions are pointless, as this is the way I will go. I am skeptical however, as I have never seen this done. What is the recommended HDPE thickness for 4x2x2 cage?

2) Assuming the answer to question #1 is 'no'... let's talk about waterproofing plywood. Pros/ Cons to:
Vinyl Film
Epoxy
Acrylic
Waterbased cheap stuff
Is there still a waterproof contact paper being manufactured?
Any other ideas?
Formica? (Would this be any better than melamine?)
Spray Liner for Truck Beds?
I have a can of 'liquid plastic' from home depottie, it is meant to be used coating wrench handles, or keys, etc... any chance that a scaled up version would work?

3)If I have to use a 'liquid' coating to coat the plywood (ie epoxy, waterbased stuff..etc)I think I would prefer to do it when the wood is not yet assembled. In other words, coat the slabs, and then screw/glue them together. Thoughts?

I am not opposed to a somewhat "disposable" cage design. If the cages give me 2-3 years of solid service (and are either very cheap, or very easy to construct) then that may be a winner too...

ugh...losing my mind going through all the various possibilities...feedback on any and all aspects welcome....

All comments/ thoughts/ ideas/ welcomed...
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Ben Team
Mark Davis
New Paradigm Herpetoculture
Captive Bred Morelia
404-438-2135
chondro776@yahoo.com

HDPE can be drilled and screwed together. The downfalls though, is that it is costly and heavy.

Another option that you may want to research is plastic shower linings.
They come in 4x8 sheets and are rather inexpensive. I think that I paid almost $10 for a sheet.
From there I cut the sheets to the size that I needed and used contact cement to affix the panels to the wood prior to assembling the enclosures. From there all that i had to do after putting them together was to seal with silicone.
The problem that you run into when using acrylic or another paint type sealant is the smell. The fumes can last for up to a month or maybe longer. With the plastic sheets, and the contact cement, there was absolutely NO smell after about 24 hours, and is a stronger bond than anything out there. I literally stood on the sheet and tried to pull it up with all my might. The smell from the silicone is gone after about 4 days. Just my two cents. good luck on whatever you decied

Neat idea....how durable is it?
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Ben Team
Mark Davis
New Paradigm Herpetoculture
Captive Bred Morelia
404-438-2135
chondro776@yahoo.com

havent had any problems with it. it is holding up after about 6 months wonderfully. Stains from urine and feces come off easy, with a little bleach water.

I would pass over the shower board (a laminated single sided pressboard; or very-hard pressed, very-fine particle board. It does breakdown over time(humidity) regardless of the fact that it is manufactured for use in a "shower". Not knocking what the other poster has offered, but it is just a matter of time.

If you want to build the cages out of a clean sided 1/2" - 5/8" plywood, then I would recommend covering the inside with FRP panels. They are readily and inexpensively available at both Lowes and Home Depot in 4'x 8' sheets(and in bright white and off white colors). FRP can be cut with a radial saw/table saw(just more dust) and a fine toothed saw blade. It can be adhered to the plywood with Liquid Nail and sealed around the inside corners with silicon(no screws to "wick" water through into the wood). Monitor breeders utilize FRP, as their claws cannot degrade the product. FRP will outlast the plywood of the cage itself.

I guess it depends on what "type" of cage you want.
Just an opinion,
Scott

Regardless of what you think Shower board is, or the possibility that you have confused Tileboard. FRP is in fact a very durable product however, its surface is often textured making it very difficult to clean.

They make smooth FRP but it is very difficult to find as well as a bit more expensive. Big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes do not commonly stock smooth FRP.

I agree FRP can handle the big lizards as my Large Lizard cages are made with FRP. The problem more often than not is the ability to clean the limited availability of color and ease of use.

I think in a Boa or other large boid or snake cage, having a smooth floor for ease of cleaning is a high priority.

But again it totally depends on the end use.

Good Luck
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

This was what I was talking about.
http://www.parklandplastics.com/nrp.shtml
The sheets that I use are .060 thickness. Cuts easily with a razor blade and is attached to the wood with adhesive. Abosulutely no way that this stuff is going to wear through or scratch up with reptile use, even lizards. It is designed as shower wall lining, and when siliconed around the edges it wont seep down under the edges.
They cost me $12 a sheet at the hardware store and come in 4x8. May be the same stuff that you are talking about. Completely smooth on one side and the other has slight bumps. I use the bumpy side down to make a better contact with the wood.

That looks like the very same thing. Thanks for the link.
Scott

So you install this with the textured side adhered to the substrate?

If so, do you have any pictures of a cage with the smooth side exposed?

I strongly dislike FRP for it's look, glossiness, texture, and for much of a pain it can be to work with. I think it's overkill for most reptile applications and the odor on newer sheets worries me.

A similar material that is smooth and with a matte finish would be nice.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I talked to the manufacture parkland plastics back in Feb about their products and my applications.

For lizard and clawed animal applications the didn't advice using any plas-tex product but recommended their Korlyte or FRP due to durability issues. It seams plast-tex cut very easy.

Also I believe the product has an inside and an outside surface, IE exposed vs glue side. IF that is indeed the case you may want to consider their silk product because it is completly smooth.

I will have to re check my email and see if he mentioned anything about what surface can be exposed.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

Hope that these pictures help.
ocuments and SettingsAll UsersDocumentsMy Pictures2006-03-21, cage" alt="Image">

Doesnt look like that worked. send me an email to aj1178inf@yahoo.com and I will email you some pics of it placed in the enclosure.
I used liquid nails to do the first panel, the top, and it made the product bubble up. That's when I went and got the contact cement and it worked great. No bubbles whatsoever.
I am also in the process of doing another large cage with the same lining.

I thought that link looked familiar, now I remember why.

$12 per sheet for that stuff seems pretty good if it can be installed smooth side out. It's not too much more expensive than vinyl film, assuming the cage design utilizes sheet material well.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I know the design (more or less) that I will be using. The cages will essentially be 5 slabs screwed and glued. Sliding Glass Doors, and Some 1x dams and baffles.

I would not use 1x's for the dams. Instead I would use strips of plywood, or whatever material you end up using.

1) Can Hdpe be drilled/screwed? (Hardware recommendations?)If it can be (as long as the material is not extrodinarily expensive) screwed, then the rest of my questions are pointless, as this is the way I will go. I am skeptical however, as I have never seen this done. What is the recommended HDPE thickness for 4x2x2 cage?

HDPE is a great material but for us DIY types we often end up having to use 1/2" material in order to use readily available fasteners. It can be screwed together but 1/2" HDPE is very expensive and very heavy. It is heavier than 1/2" plywood.

I would be more inclined to use 1/2" Sintra or another brand of expanded PVC. Depending on where you live, you could probably find a local company that can even cut panels for you on a CNC router and make assembly really easy.

Vinyl film may be a good option for you given the number of cages you need. I bought a 150' x 30" roll at 26 cents per square foot. Much more durable that contact paper although it is a lot glossier. The biggest con against it is finding it in small quantity but that's the last think you need to worry about.

The term epoxy is wide open. I don't think a solvent based epoxy is worth it so I would stick with what are being called water-based epoxies. I suspect these would last a very long time, although you may need to use something more durable for the floors. They are fairly expensive.

Lining these cages with acrylic will be expensive and time consuming. I don't like this idea at all.

Water-based cheap stuff? Water-based urethanes tend to be much more expensive than their solvent or oil based counterparts. I like them, but again would use something more durable for the floors and first few inches of the cage walls.

I don't know if there is still a high quality contact paper being made. I understand the answer to be no, but can't say that for sure. The stuff is actually pretty expensive.

Formica is awesome looking but a bit expensive and will be time-consuming.

Truck liner would work but most of them go on heavily textured. If you can find a DIY brand that can be rolled on smooth, this may be a good choice, although the chemical makeup of these varies a lot and I hate to lump them together as safe, unsafe, etc. I do not recommend spraying these yourself.

Related to this, if you could build all or most of the cages, you could probably take them to a Line-X dealer and have them sprayed all at once and save some money, although I would do a test cage first. Line-X is low VOC and can be sprayed smooth.

Other ideas would be water (latex) based drylok. It's cheap and easy to apply but has a sandy texture that would be less than ideal for any areas that need frequent cleaning.

One thing you could do, if you're be willing to modify the design, is to make the cages without floors and simply staple PVCX or shower board directly to the bottom rim of the cage. This would give you a cheap and easy to replace cage floor. The walls which don't need as much cleaning could be painted with Drylok.

3)If I have to use a 'liquid' coating to coat the plywood (ie epoxy, waterbased stuff..etc)I think I would prefer to do it when the wood is not yet assembled. In other words, coat the slabs, and then screw/glue them together. Thoughts?

Don't do it. With your desire to have a simple to build cage, you're going to want the adhesive you use to have a good bond, which you won't get if you seal the surface of the plywood that is going to be glued to the cut edge of the opposite panel.

I suppose you could paint the panels and use construction adhesive, but this would not be my first choice.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)