Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've got an appoximately year-old corn snake, gender unknown, that has recently had a change in behavior.

I've had him for several months now, and he's never really shown signs of aggression other than the day he moved in (which is understandable, he had a rough journey).

In fact, he's rather timid. He's usually always hiding and is a bit skittish. Recently, though, he's had his head poking out of his hidebox every time I pass the cage. When I place two finger on the side of the glass, he'll follow them (no surprise) and then begin stalking them! At first I thought he was just curious, but then he struck out at the glass. I interpreted that he was hungry, so I fed him that day.

Two days later, he struck at me through the glass again after stalking my fingers.

Is he still hungry, should I be worried about aggression, or does he simply think that my fingers are prey? I can understand the latter, but he'll even creep out a bit when I'm just standing there looking at him, and his head is now always sticking out of the hidebox.

What's with this behavioral change?

Hate to ask, but do you feed him in the tank? Do you feed him by hand?

If not, I don't know, but it sounds like a feeding response. Does he do this when you reach in the tank to pull him out?
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2.0 Snow Corns
1.2 Normal Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
0.1 Anerythristic A Corns
1.1 Amelanistic San Diego Gophers
0.1 Hypo Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Sonoran Gopher
1.0 Cape Gopher Het. Albino
1.0 Sunglow Sonoran Gopher
1.1 Bull Het. Albino/Axanthic
0.1 Leucistic Texas Rat
1.0 Albino Striped Cal. Kings
0.1 Striped Cal. Kings
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.1 African Fat Tail Gecko
0.2 Cat
0.1 Dog
0.1 Friend
jswanson737@hotmail.com

this time of year, you can get some serious fluctuations in temps. And a hot snake is an angry snake. Make sure to use a reliable thermometer and put it directly over your hot spot.
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

sounds like you've conditioned him to expect food everytime he sees you!! If thats the case then start feeding him outside of his tank. Handle him more so he wont associate your interaction with him as a "dinner bell".

My albino corn almost always peeks out at me when he sees me coming home from work. It's like he's waiting, but he never strikes. However, I almost always feed him in another cage then his and I handled him very frequently, not just when it's feeding time. Every now and then, if I have a small fuzzy left over from another snake who refuses to eat, I'll give it to him by hand in his cage, but that's a rarity.

Thanks for the advice about the temperature - I never thought about heat making them angry but will remember that for the future!

I feed all of my snakes in thier enclosures and have been doing so for many years and i cannot remember the last time i got bit..

ditto....except i remember the last time i got bit(doesnt count it was by my sand boa and they bite everytime until out of the cage)
adam
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hybrid breeders association
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.5 ghost corns
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 childrens python
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 milksnake phase
0.1 anery motley
0.1 albino banded cal king
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0 butter corns
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 3 lined mud turtle

My motley will occasionally shake his tail and go into a defensive posture when I approach his cage. But he stops immediately when I reach in and ick him up. It's almost as if he suddenly realizes, Oh, this is NOT about feeding today . . . so I can calm down. I'd say feeding response.

No offense intended, by any means, but I've always interpreted the actions you described as that of the bullying coward.

The snake acts all big & bad as if trying to imtimidate you, as in "Hey! You want some of me!?" And when you reach in to get it it thinks to itself "Oh, crap! That didn't work. Well, OK, go ahead and hold me, I was just kidding."

I've seen corns, pines, and other similar species do this fairly often.

I feel that one reason some confuse it with a feeding response is that they rarely display this attitude after eating. I believe the reason they don't is because they are full, content and just want to be left alone at that point.

I'm not saying that I'm right & you're wrong, I'm just sharing my beliefs.

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Other people seem to think he's just bluffing as well. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

HH, I see you came around to the conclusion that this may be a feeding response, as did I, but not until you suggested I was a "bullying coward." Actually, offense taken -- you don't know mw, don't know what experience I may have had with snakes, and in the end you seemed to agree with my conclusion anyway. Why use language like that on a forum where people strive to be helpful to one another? Or perhaps you are just a jerk.

Whoa there, fella! You misunderstood what I wrote. Heeheehee!!!

"No offense intended, by any means, but I've always interpreted the actions you described as that of the bullying coward."

Please notice that I said "the actions you described," as in the snake's actions, not yours. Heeheehee!!!

I don't attack people or try to put them down, in any way, no matter how much I may agree/disagree with them. So, no, I'm not a jerk. But I can certainly see where you'd think I was if I actually called you a "bullying coward." LOL!!!

As for my comments about a feeding response, I was talking about the latest actions Dragonflychaser said the snake did this morning, following his hand around, not the striking actions we were talking about earlier.

Even with that, I could be wrong/you could be right, vice-versa, OR, we both could be wrong. I'm not keeping score. A variety of opinions is more helpful than a single one. And like you said, we're both just trying to be helpful. So keep up the good work and know that I'm not your enemy, at least, I'm not trying to be.

If I failed to make my message clear enough, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. For all that its worth, I think you did a good job of biting your lip & not blasting me with both barrels. Heeheehee!!!

After all, with a name like "Mike," you can't be all that bad.

Catch ya later!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

OK, truce -- may have been my misread.

Truce it is. LOL!!! I can imagine what you thought when you read it the way you interpreted it. Heeheehee!!! "What the.......! Why, you ...........!" Heeheehee!!!

Next time I'll make myself more clear.

Catch ya later!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Actually, more info is needed to come to a reasonable conclusion on its behavior. If you really want to get to the bottom of it & turn things around take a few minutes to answer these questions:

(1) How many times have you handled it since you've had it? How often do you handle it?

(2) What have you been feeding it (Small mice, medium mice, large mice, small rats, etc...)? How many at a time & how often?

Tell the truth & don't worry about people jumping on you if you're doing something wrong. Hopefully, nobody will do that and we can help you get to where you enjoy your corn snake like it should be enjoyed.

It doesn't sound like a feeding response, at least not solely. And I've always fed all of my snakes in their enclosures without any problems. There are all kinds of ways to condition snakes to avoid feeding response problems.

Sounds to me like its finally gotten settled in, has become a bit territorial from not being handled enough and could also be a bit hungry. But hopefully your answers to the above questions will give us a better idea.

If the cage is in a high traffic area this could also be a factor, combined with the above. For the time being, I'd avoid teasing it with fingers or face up close to the cage, unless you're getting it out to handle it.

Hang in there!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

First, thank you to everyone who has responded! I really appreciate the help.

I handle him at least once a week, though admittedly not as often as I should. Still, he does see people close-up often and not only during feeding time.

Because of his size, he was first fed pinkies every four days, and now he's up to the step just before fuzzies (larger pinkies that are starting to show signs of fuzz) about once a week. Since I've had him, I've only used frozen & thawed mice.

I hadn't thought about territorial behavior, which does make sense. Perhaps he is just finally confident about his home, and is trying to show off.

I changed his water this morning, and instead of remaining in his hidebox like he used to, he crawled out and was swinging around, following my hand, his upper half suspended. And then when he settled again after I was done, he... yawned? That part was kinda cute, he opened his mouth and adjusted his lower jaw. Probably has nothing to do with this, but I was amused.

This is my first snake, so I'm not sure if the investigation is a display of "strength" or just curiosity. I'll be handling him tonight, so I'll see how he reacts to that.

Silly me! I forgot to ask you the snake's size. I had it in mind while writing but forget to ask.

Sounds like you're on top of things. Its probably just bluffing, being a bit territorial. When I have one act that way I stop what I'm doing and handle it, right then & there, to let it know that it doesn't scare me. They usually stop after a few times.

When you feed it, do you feed it all it wants or only give it so much? Might help to give it all it wants the next few feedings to see if you need to change prey size and to make sure it's getting enough. That is, if you haven't already established this. Just trying to save you some time & help out.

Show it who's boss. They almost always tame right down once picked up. Being young, its probably searching for its place in the social chain.

Take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I haven't tried giving him all he wants before, so it's possible he's still hungry after just one. If he refuses a second one, can I re-freeze it or are they a one-time thaw only thing?

>>I haven't tried giving him all he wants before, so it's possible he's still hungry after just one. If he refuses a second one, can I re-freeze it or are they a one-time thaw only thing?

Pinkies have a tendecy to turn to mush rather quickly. I would discard any pinkie thats not eaten in a reasonable amout of time. If you note the labels on frozen food (for people) it usually says something like "do not refreeze". If its a good thing for your food, its a good thing for his too.

Cheers,

John D.

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

Makes sense about not re-freezing, thanks! I had wondered about that before, too.

"I changed his water this morning, and instead of remaining in his hidebox like he used to, he crawled out and was swinging around, following my hand, his upper half suspended. And then when he settled again after I was done...."

Now, that sounds like a feeding response. Sounds like its hungry.
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

First let me welcome you to the wonderful world of cornsnakes!

Second what you are seeing is normal snake behavior.

Your little guy has adjusted well - he feels confident enough to be out and about. This is a good thing. All my snakes will "follow my fingers." This is perfectly normal behavior. Cornsnakes have good vision (as snakes go) and will investigate movement to see if it is food. Their vision is particularly sensetive to movement, and so they "follow your finger". This is not aggression - it is simple curiosity.

The rearing of the fore body sounds like a defensive display. Young cornsnakes are vulnerable to many predators, and they will instictively react this way. It is basiclly a bluff, and your snake will grow out of it quickly.

I have a couple tips to share:

1. Don't feed your snake by hand - use forceps to grasp, handle, and present food items. This dissociates your hand (and its smell) from the food.

2. Don't smell like food - always wash your hands before (and after) handling your snake and especially if you handle his food.

3. When you want to handle him, move slowly and touch him on his back first. Avoid grabbing by the head or tail as these are the most vulnerable parts.

4. If he rears up in a defensive display present your hand to him palm first, held in a flat manner (like a handshake). This will discouage the display, and if he does stike the thick skin of your palm will be unharmed.

5. If he does strike, don't flinch. This will usually be a bluff, and flinching will only encouage him to strike again. At his size he cannot harm you.

6. I would feed him more often - once a week is fine for subadult and adult corns - youngsters should be fed every 3 to 4 days. My old adult female eats only every 3rd week or so and she is a fatty.

Sounds like you are doing a good job with your snake - keep it up!

Cheers,

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

Thanks! I do wash my hands before and after handling, especially after feeding, and I also touch him several times on the back before attempting to pick him up. I'll try using forceps from now on if I don't take him from his cage for food.

I do have a question about feeding frequency. How old/large until he can be fed once a week? Also, I'm aware you're not supposed to handle them 1-2 days after feeding them. But at an every-4-day feeding schedule, there's not much time for handling. Is that just how it goes until they're older and ready for a weekly feeding?

I'm also glad to have nearly everyone tell me he's bluffing. I've always read corn snakes are very docile, so first I was apprehensive that I got one who was overly skittish, and now a bit aggressive. Good to know he's acting like a normal one!

>>I do have a question about feeding frequency. How old/large until he can be fed once a week?

When he's on small adut mice is good. Its not like this is a hard and fast rule - you can taper the intervals as you go.

>>Also, I'm aware you're not supposed to handle them 1-2 days after feeding them. But at an every-4-day feeding schedule, there's not much time for handling.

There are so many "rules of thumb" that if you followed all of them you might never have any fun. I've raised several litters of Creamsicles and I never had one regurge from handling - but thats just me. I've also fed them in hand and had them swallowing pinkies while hanging from my fingers.

I would say that if you can still see a pronounced bluge. let him be. Otherwise, its cool.

>>Is that just how it goes until they're older and ready for a weekly feeding?

To some extent, yes. The first year and half or so are vulnerable times for young snakes and they are quite delicate. This is also when they learn what to eat, whats not food, and how to react to their keeper. Handle him with care and gentleness and he will be fine.

>>I'm also glad to have nearly everyone tell me he's bluffing. I've always read corn snakes are very docile, so first I was apprehensive that I got one who was overly skittish, and now a bit aggressive. Good to know he's acting like a normal one!

Yes, you have a normal healthy baby. In addition to the tendency for corns to be docile, every individual has his own personality. Some are confident, some are timid. Sounds like yours has a good confident personality. I think you will get along fine.

Cheers,

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

Bluffing? Not likely. Most corn snakes don't bluff other than to rattle their tail. Did you check the temperatures in your cage? I know somebody mentioned it earlier but I didn't find a reply. Also, what kind of corn snake is it? If it is something like a creamsicle which has been created by breeding with Elaphe emoryi then it is likely to be more aggressive, there are other color morphs that have been created by outcrossing and anyone of those could likely have a marked behavior difference. I'm not saying that you don't have a true corn snake, just offering possiblities to explain it's quite unusual behavior.

Taiwan Beauty 1.2
Bairds 1.2
Ball Pythons 5.1
Boa Constrictors 1.3
Brazilian Rainbow Boas 1.1
Cal Kings 0.2
Carpet Pythons 1.2
Corn Snakes 26.42
Dumerils Boa 1.2
Eastern Fox Snake 1.0
Green Tree Pythons 1.1
Grey Banded Kingsnake 1.0
Hog Island Boa 1.1
Jallisco Milksnake 1.3
Mandarin Rat Snake 1.1
Mexican Black Kingsnake 1.3
Red Milksnake 1.1
Ruthvens Kingsnake 1.1
San Luis Potosi Kingsnake 2.5
Kenyan Sand Boas 1.3
Spotted Pythons 1.1
Western Hognose 3.5

>>Bluffing? Not likely. Most corn snakes don't bluff other than to rattle their tail. Did you check the temperatures in your cage? I know somebody mentioned it earlier but I didn't find a reply. Also, what kind of corn snake is it? If it is something like a creamsicle which has been created by breeding with Elaphe emoryi then it is likely to be more aggressive, there are other color morphs that have been created by outcrossing and anyone of those could likely have a marked behavior difference. I'm not saying that you don't have a true corn snake, just offering possiblities to explain it's quite unusual behavior.
>>

You are right in that it may not be a bluff but corns can and do bluff.
To say "most corns don't bluff" is not altogether true.
I have had false strikes, bluffs and "S" posses many many times.
Yes it may bite. But if it does and realizes it doesn't do any good it will not continue to bite.
high temps can cause snakes to be aggresive or agitated and that is something that should probably be checked but it does sound as if the snake is just active, curious and hungry. The behavior described is not all that unusual.
And..............
I breed cinnamons, creamsicles, motley creamsicles and stripe creamsicles. All obviously have emoryi blood.
They are no different as hatchlings then the anerys, amels, okeetees, snows, normals or anything else I produce.
I have some crosses that are laid back from day one and some that are more defensive and I have pure corns that are laid back from day one and others that are more defensive. It's just the snake.
They all calm down soon enough.
To say that a snake is more likely to be aggresive because it has emoryi blood is simply missleading and well, in my opinion, uninformed.
sorry, its just that some of these things hit a nerve.

The good thing is you are trying to help and you can do like most of the people around here and just ignore me.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I AGREE!! the 3 creams i got from you are a great way to explain!!! the female thinks shes tough and always rattles, jumps into an "s" and pretends to strike, but never bites. as for her sibling brothers....just as calm and as sweet as can be i think its just like people- we're all different- all have bad days. dont you ever feel like biting someones head off?? or is that just me... oh well

~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. Orange normal (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
2. Miami Phase part zigzag (Starkey, Mcvitty)[Emilys F2]
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury) .1 Blizzard (Detta)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy) [Emilys F1 babies]
.1 Amel (Pepperoni) .1 Reverse Okeetee (Lonna)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss HET Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Hypo HET Stripe (Gracie Lou) 1. Hypo Stripe (Gideon)
1.1 Anery HET Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy Cane (Peaches HoneyBlossom) [Just a pet]
1. Abbotts Okeetee (Albert) [Charlottes son]
1.1 Snow (Crickle, Isis) .1 Green Snow (Maya)
1. Caramel poss het butter (Topher)
.1 Anery stripe (V) [husbands snake...he named it]

Others:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)
1. High-white Reverse Spotted Cal King (Wishbone)
.1 Albino Stripe Cal King (Eve)
.1 Bananna spotted/stripe cal king (no name) Thanks Jeff!!!
1.1 Thayeri (Giuseppe[MSP], Cheyenne)
1.1 Creamsicle HET Motley(Orangejello, Genevieve)
1. Creamsicle motley (no name) Thanks Jimmy!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Normal het Midnight Blizzard (Mr. Spot)
.1 Blizzard (Blitz)
.1? unknown High yellow and brown spots... (no name)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)
~~~~~~~~~~~~OTHER~~~~~~~~~~~~
0.0.1 American toad

Thanks Bud!

You defended my/our position quite well.

To say "Most corn snakes don't bluff other than to rattle their tail." implies a lack of experience with the real thing. The wild Cornsnakes I have encountered routinely adopt the "S" defensive posture and throw the occasional bluff strike, along with the tail buzz.

I've even encountered an unsual defensive reaction at least once. A young-of-the-year flattened its entire body (kind of like a hoggie) to look bigger and show off its dorsal pattern. For a split second it worked, as I did a double take before realizing it wasn't a copperhead!

I've raised several batches of Creamsicles and I can say they are about as tame as snakes can be. The little ones that react with the defensive display-behavior soon grow out of it.

Perhaps the poster was thinking along the lines of in-bred dog breeds and dog/wolf cross-breeds that can be aggressive? As far as I know this does not occur with snakes, but I'm ready to be educated!

Cheers!

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

He's just a normal okeetee morph. The temperature is generally 77-80 F.

You might've already said and I missed it but how long is your corn snake?

If its been growing and is a few months old it should be able to eat 2 of that size prey and that should be a good meal for it.

Looks like John's given you some good advice that I second. Especially: "There are so many "rules of thumb" that if you followed all of them you might never have any fun." LOL!!! And how true that is. Learn to taylor some things to fit you & your snake. Granted, there are some things that should be held to strictly. You'll figure it out. You know you can always come back here with any questions you may have.

As for handling after feeding, that's one of those rules of thumb mentioned above. It is a good rule of thumb to go by, at least, until you get to know your snake. Some snakes are more nervous than others and will regurgitate if handled too soon after feeding. Regurgitation is hard on snakes. I've never had a snake that I didn't/couldn't handle aprox. 24 hrs. after feeding. Like John said, I've handled some immediately afterwards, but I knew them well and knew it wouldn't bother them. I still don't recommend that, though. 24 hrs. should be fine considering the age & attitude of your snake.

The only reason I have ever fed a snake outside of its normal cage was if there was a decorative substrate that I felt could be hazardous if the snake swallowed some of it. In fact, I only did it one time and that was with a Ball Python I rescued. It had desert sand in its cage when I got it & I could see it was starving to death. It hadn't been fed in 1 year. I broght it home, placed it in a plastic tote, fed it, waited a few hours & used a hook to put it back in its cage until I had time to remove the desert sand.

For your corn to be healthy & doing what its doing, you're doing something right. Keep up the good work, relax and enjoy it.

Take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

He's about 30 inches. When I got him, he was thought to be approximately 6 months old, so I'd say he's about 8 months old.

Thanks for the advise on feeding schedule! I'll experiment tentatively to see how nervous he is after eating a meal. I'll definitely wait 24 hours, though. I'd rather not give cause for regurgitation.

At that size, it should easily eat 2 fuzzy (not pre-fuzzy) mice if not a hopper (aprox. 1 1/2 inches). It may be intimidated by the larger hopper so I'd feed it 2 fuzzies next time around & take it from there.

I just got rid of a corn about 3-ft. long that would eat a 4-inch rat each feeding.

Take care & post a pic of it when you get a chance, I'd like to see the little rascal.

Later!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Here he is, curious as to why I'm fiddling with the cage clamps.

And here he is earlier this week when I fed him. That's a pre-fuzzy mouse. You think he could eat two of these for one feeding?

Sorry for the lack of clarity, these were rather quick photos.

Forgot to preview to see if the image HTML worked. XD This forum must not support HTML coding.

Pretty! Cute little booger.

I'd say that's pretty darn close to the appropriate size mouse for it. Your corn is in one of those "in between" stages as far as prey size goes.

Personally, I would either feed it 2 of the next size smaller or 1 the next size larger, probably the larger. But before you run out & buy some, wait for some of these other folks to post their thoughts.

I think you're definitely well within the ballpark with that size, though.

Catch ya later!
Mike
(HH)
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

What a beauty!

I agree with Mike - that's the right size mousie. He could probably handle 2 of those without too much trouble. He looks a bit on the lean side to me, but my snakes are fatties!

BTW - Mike, thanks for the endorsement! Your advise is darn good!

Cheers and Enjoy!

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"