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So is the Arabesque trait...

Psycodelic Nov 15, 2006 06:22 PM

Dom or Co-dom? I have seen many pics of offspring resulting from an arabesque x arabesque breeding and none show a significant difference from any other arabesque (think jungle/super jungle or motley/super motley)? Has there been a breeding done where the F2 offspring were produced from F1 poss super arabesque? I feel either I am naive and have mo clue what I am talking about or I would be right by saying that the gene is Dom similar to the hypo gene correct?

I would like to hear what the rest of the crowd has to say!

Thanks Greg Reinert

Replies (30)

NUCCIZ_BOAS Nov 15, 2006 08:15 PM

nobody is really sure about the trait yet. Some argue that it's a genetic morph, others say it might be a locality of its own. IF in fact it is a morph gene, it would be co-dom, like the hypo gene. You're right comparing it to hypomelanistic, but wrong in your terms. a dominant gene would be Motley, where the "super" form stands out in a crowd and you can say DUH this is a motley, and DUH this is a super. Hypos and arabesques we cannot do that to, we can take a good guess, but there is no proven system.

Bottom line, IF in fact it is a morph, it is similiar to hypo and is co-dom.

I don't believe anybody has bred offspring of an arabesque x arabesque pairing yet to prove it out, anybody know of such?

metachrosis Nov 15, 2006 08:30 PM

I know alot of people are getting hosed on the money their investing on this BCI variant.I wouldnt touch it(many others arent as well).
Gonna be some other unhappy investors with empty pockets buying into the "Latest/Greatest" thats been run up the flagpole.

Without "suckers" PT Barnum would have died broke.

M/
(Not a Circus fan)

mdc Nov 15, 2006 09:01 PM

Greg,
You have it right and the first reply to your post is completely incorrect. Please ignore that post as it is spreading completely false information. First of all, there is no way the arabesque is just a different locality since half the offspring come out as arabesques and half come out like normal colombians when an arabesque is bred to a normal. It is just not feasable to me how someone could possibly think it is a locality difference.

Now for codom vs. dom. You are correct that motleys and jungles are codom. I suspect the arabesque is more likely a dominant gene like the hypo, however it does appear that you may be able to guess which ones are more likely to be supers just like hypos. I am not aware of any breedings done with the possible super arabesques as I believe there is only one litter that would have come to breeding age to date.

Matt Crabe

ChrisGilbert Nov 15, 2006 09:55 PM

Yes, that second post has me scared, someone please help that guy get some proper information.

Psycodelic Nov 15, 2006 10:24 PM

for the reassurance I thought I was correct the first time just wanted to hear what other people had in mind as far as this unique gene is concerned!

I am thinking about picking up a female after seeing some of the Arabesque Sunglow produced this year they are truly amazing!

Thanks Greg Reinert

Psycodelic Nov 15, 2006 10:47 PM

litter number 69 and 78 in the birthing records on PK's site and tell me the investing in an arabesque is not worth the time of day. I know everyone has there own opinions but... there has to be something special in order to produce such phenominal animals.

Greg Reinert

vcaruso15 Nov 16, 2006 08:44 AM

Read what Chris wrote.
-----
Thanks Vinnie Caruso
opinons are like a--holes... everybody has one and they all stink

voodoomagik Nov 16, 2006 04:34 PM

Just out of curiosity-
Why do you think people are getting hosed?
If it's their looks, that's one thing and I can understand that. There are a lot of morphs out there that go for big $ and I can't even tell the difference between them and a normal, but it's pretty obvious that the arabesque trait is a heritable trait.

ChrisGilbert Nov 15, 2006 09:59 PM

First Hypo is a dominant mutation; Motley is a co-dominant mutation; Jungle is a co-dominant mutation.
Arabesque IS genetic, otherwise how would they be (1) reproduced, (2) creat designer morphs. There are Hypo, Albino, and Sunglow Arabesques. Although they were stillborn, Motley Arabesque and Hypo Motley Arabesque.

In a co-dominant mutation the heterozygous form and the homozygous form have two DISTINCT phenotypes.

In a Dominant mutation the heterozygous form and the homozygous form have ALIKE or the same Phenotypes.

In both cases the heterozygous form is different from wild-type, this is what separates them from recessive mutations, where the heterozygous forms are wild-type in phenotype.

Psycodelic Nov 15, 2006 10:30 PM

Chris I was anticipating your response to be honest . I thought I was on track but I was not sure if any further breedings had been done to confirm any suspicions about this gene.

Greg Reinert

BoidaeAddiction Nov 16, 2006 01:54 AM

About a month ago there was some talk here on the forum about the arabesque trait; you mentioned that you thought the arabesque my be a locality all to itself. What thoughts or knowledge do you have to support that theory, I was just interested in getting some feedback on that. And I agree with the previous posts (except the first reply) and still would like to see a full litter of arabesques from a "super" form. Hope your semester is finishing up nicely, I know I'm ready for a break! Trey Schneller

ChrisGilbert Nov 16, 2006 12:24 PM

The end couldn't come soon enough, but back to boas.

If you look at the morphology of pure line Arabesques they have some distinct characteristics. Most notably in their head shape. As a result of this, I think the morph either affects morphology and not just pattern/color (I've begun to think this is the case from seeing Albino and Hypo Arabesques with the same head shape); or the morphologic differences are because of where the trait originated.

Some other Colombian morphs have unique traits that may be traced to origin as well. In this list, I am not counting altered animals through selective breeding, but how they were first found. Anerythristics tend to have blockier saddles. Sharp Albinos and T-plus Colombians seem to have very similar pattern characteristics, and body structure. Their patterns are often very full, and the broad saddles have small widows peaks. And are not connected.

As I said, this is not necessarily the case with selective captive breeding, which has created thin saddled versions of these morphs, and connected patterns, taking away widows peaks.

Just some things to think of. Certain group traits are most likely due to geographic differences. This may or may not be true, but it is possible. Look at boas from the same regions that Arabesque, T-Plus, or Sharp were found, and see if each respective locale had traits alike to the founding stock of the morph, or if it is a characteristic of the morph.

Psycodelic Nov 16, 2006 12:44 PM

...

ChrisGilbert Nov 16, 2006 12:28 PM

that I do not own any Arabesques or plan to in the near future. So I am not trying to convince people of something I am working with. I am simply sick of improper information being thrown around and want to make sure correct information is made available, and incorrect information is corrected.

vcaruso15 Nov 16, 2006 08:42 AM

Please read what Chris wrote.
-----
Thanks Vinnie Caruso
opinons are like a--holes... everybody has one and they all stink

ChrisGilbert Nov 15, 2006 10:00 PM

Greg, not sure what the first replier was thinking, however, you are on the right track.

It still has to undergo a little more testing to rule out co-dominant, but is does APPEAR to be dominant.

bthacker Nov 16, 2006 01:16 AM

I just bought 2 and I dig them! I am glad I threw my money away on these....

sun_king Nov 16, 2006 09:42 AM

Did you happen to buy 1.1 or what? I will hope to prove out the hypo arab poss het alb male I got from the Burkes this year. Would be nice to produce a super arabesque sunglow....

Joe

bthacker Nov 16, 2006 12:10 PM

Actually yeah! I picked up an 05' Het for albino female and an adult male het for albino!! Hopefully the male will get to breeding for me this year.....

Hope all is well.

Psycodelic Nov 16, 2006 09:51 AM

Nice I love the color aracesques get as they grow! Trust me you did not throw a cent away!

Greg Reinert

toine Nov 16, 2006 10:08 AM

arabesque boas RULE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

-----
toine plompen,,,holland

WWW.PUREBOAS.COM

rainbowsrus Nov 16, 2006 11:00 AM

poof, You have an albino arabesque:


-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.24 BRB
11.13 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

AndreasE Nov 16, 2006 01:18 PM

I too wasted my money on arabesques and look the color is all wrong.
Andreas

Psycodelic Nov 16, 2006 01:36 PM

I would love to hear your secret.

Greg Reinert

AndreasE Nov 16, 2006 03:41 PM

This litter was from arabesque het albino to arabesque albino female breeding. Even the hets are really colorful. One of my favorite morphs.
Andreas

voodoomagik Nov 16, 2006 04:29 PM

so where did the stripers come from?
Could they be the supers or were you using stripeline albios?
Great babies there!
Is that a hypo arabesque and a sunglow arabesque?
I love this guy and would buy him again anyday!
(plus, the "het for albino" thing didn't hurt either...)
Toine, you're right, arabesques rock!
Aaron

Psycodelic Nov 16, 2006 04:46 PM

That is interesting I wonder if that has anything to do with the amount of color they have. Did you produce them? Impressive jungles by the way!

Greg Reinert

AndreasE Nov 16, 2006 05:17 PM

I produced all in the last picture. I bred this jungle het to my arabesque albino. Hopefully she will take this time, she didn't last season. Should be an interesting outcome. He is also the father of the striped jungles.
Andreas

slithering_serpents Nov 16, 2006 06:00 PM

Andreas, you have some really amazing and great boas. Thanks so much for sharing your boas with us in photographs. : )

Caden

slithering_serpents Nov 16, 2006 05:55 PM

n/p

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