Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi, i was cleaning out some cages a couple weeks ago and i put my male dumeril's ground boa in the same cage as my female argentine boa and to my surprise, they started mating. of course i couldnt pull them apart because i didnt want to risk injury or infection, but i left them alone and i am wondering if this has happened to anybody else and if so, did the eggs catch or not? and if they did catch, were the babies stillborn or are they still alive? any help would be great. thanks.

We can't have crossbreeds. Just kidding, if it was only for one day I doubt she took, I am no expert, but usually I see my boas copulate many times before ovulation occurs, you might want to get another tank, or atleast a rubbermaid for cleaning. Good luck. Craig

lol... the thing is, after i saw them mating, i got interested and left them together. its been bout two months and i think the argentine is beginning to ovulate. i'm not sure if its offspring, or she has to go to the bathroom really bad, but she has been getting bigger near the vent for about two weeks now...

She may just be going through a preovulation swell. Let us know how it turns out

Yeah, I'd theorize that the male's activity could stimluate ovulation whether or not they could produce offspring.
Let me know, too!

yueah, i'll definitely keep everyone posted. i'm really interested to see if it happens... i just want to know if anyone has ever had this happen and if it did, what were the babies like?

Who cares if it was an accident, keep crossing and we might even name whatever comes out after you.

I once had a huge corn snake, and I crossed my Surinam with it, and depending on how you looked at it, I either had some really wimpy Suri's, or some really scary Corn snakes.

I've always wondered about the dumeril's with the BCs. I've kept and bred both of them in the same cage and had dumeril's litters and BCI litters bred from that same enclosure, but the males of one species never paid any attention to the females of the other one. For that reason, I've often thought of using dumeril's in with BCs for combat to stimulate breeding without the risk of the wrong male fertilizing the females. That seemed to be happening when I had them all together. The males were VERY motivated and seemed to key off each other, but showed no interested in the other females.
Let us know if anything happens.
I still don't even know what to think about that picture of the male ball python breeding the female granite burmese.
What ever happened with that anyway?

well i only had the large female argentine and the male dumerils in the cage. they were the only two and for the first couple weeks all they would do was "it" and i think its finally starting to pay off... i'm just not sure if female will have live babies (if at all) and i cant figure out what they would look like... there is a comparible size difference in a full grown argentine and a full grown dumerils, so, i'm not sure how big they'd be or what their temperament would be like...

The dumeril's I had were always pretty cool, but the two argentines that I kept were not the nicest.
Either way, if they produce something live that's be really interesting.
You may want to prepare to catch some heat for this post though...

yeah... i just wanted to see what other people thought of my acciddental experiment... my male dumerils is really skittish but the argentine is fine... she seems to like people...

yeah, some people may not be too worried about your feelings when they express how displeased they are with your accident. This forum can get pretty harsh pretty fast.
That's funny, I would have thought the opposite about their temperaments. You say they've been courting for 2-3 months?
Have you seen any actual copulation?

yeah, when i first put the dumerils in there when i was cleaning his cage, i looked away for a minute and when i looked back they were copulating. i've seen them copulate at least 15-20 times in the first month they were in the cage together.

You "accidentally" let the male in there for 2 months right? LMAO
Geez. If I wanted to breed some off the wall pair, at least I would own up to it.

Caden

no, i said they aciddentely started mating when i put him in the argentines cage. i also said that i got interested so i left them in there. if you are gonna yell at me then get the whole story first

Boas don't "accidentally" breed. It's alot of work! They have to line up one of the hemipenes, get it in there, hope she doesn't crawl around too much while they're trying...while saying sweet nothings the whole time..serious multitasking!
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Jason Dowell

yeah you never cleaned cages before? You never needed another place as a holding cage? ha ha ha ha

Caden

that there was no place else to put the snake other than with a different species of the opposite sex. If you were intending to attempt the cross, that's your choice.

After visiting an overcrowded facility several years ago, I decided I would always have more cages than snakes. Even more so during breeding season as the males are out "visiting" the females. Even so, I'm always looking at my two collections (snakes and cages) to decide where each animal lives and where I have needs or surpluses in caging. I even recently dropped $4K on a collection of "used" cages to bolster my collection and give me some prime breeding cages for the big girls! Most of that collection is now in my garage collecting dust until such time as I need them.

I believe you should also have some sort of a transport container in case you want (or need) to take them somewhere else like the vet, a breeding loan or just a show and tell at the kids school. That same container whether hard tub or pillow case would also work very well for containing a snake while you cleaned it's cage.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.24 BRB
11.13 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

yeah, we have some big tubs for when we go to schools so we can bring our big boas and burmese, but they were all being used... we were having a big cleaning day so i just stuck the dumerils in the argentine cage for a couple minutes... the male immediatly came onto the argentine before i finished cleaning his cage, adn then i just got interested so i left him in there.

While I never understand when people say it is an "accident" either you meant to or not, or you shouldn't have that many animals that they were housed together even for a day.

With that said, I believe someone did try Colombian imperator X Dumerils a while ago, and the litter slugged out.

However, that's not to say it is impossible.

Heck many attempts at the numerous Python hybrids slugged out at first, and often still do.

Look at this list:
Ball X Woma
Woma X WP Carpet
WP Carpet X Green Tree
Green Tree X Jungle carpet
Ball X Borneo
Ball X Angolan
Retic X Burm
Burm X Af. Rock
Macklots X Carpet

Emerald X Amazon tree boas.

So, it isn't impossible. There have been taxonomic debates about the Madagascan Boids, and many of the Python hybrids are cross genus.

Hardly an accident. First you said it was an accident. Then you admitted after few weeks, and now they copulated 15-20 times the first month they were together. This is obviously a deliberate effort to cross different species and not an accident at all. Perhaps the first introduction was an "accident" if you believe that opening two cage doors, assuming the animals didn't do that themselves, and then placing one animal in the cage with the other deliberately, if somehow that can be defined as an "accident", then yes, the first introduction could be an accident. I would not define that as an accident though but poor husbandry. All that being said...

There are plenty of Anti-Hybrid police and Anti-Crossing anything Whackos out there. I used to be one of them. I'm no longer am. I have crossed over. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. Hybrids, if they survive, most of the time are mules. That is infertile and all males. If you get females in the litter, I believe they will reproduce. If not, they won't.

Also, Dumerils Boa babies shed as soon as they are born. Boa Constrictors shed about ten days after they are born. I suspect the genetic differences will not allow any young to be born at all. I will be surprised if you get any. Another too little known fact; Dumerils Boas were at one time considered a Boa Constrictor subspecies. Long ago and far away.

An accident? No. Good luck!
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as i have said before, i put the male in there while i was cleaning his cage. i assumed that they would not try anything because they were different species and there was a huge size difference. I made a mistake and looked away for a minute and then when i went to get the dumerils out, they had started copulating. I said after that i became interested and left him in there. It was an accident at first but then it kind of became deliberate.

Regardless if you meant it to happen or not, it is a dangerous practice - one snake could have attacked and/or eaten the other, unless you were watching the whole time. And since you were busy cage-cleaning, you were problably busy.

I thought I had read that dumeril's sometimes even attack their own species... not sure if that's true, but still, even temporarily housing snakes of different species together can be very risky.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com
1.0 Ball Python, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 Green Tree Python

You think i dont know that snakes can attack each other? i also have kingsnakes. i know snakes can fight. some of my corns even try to eat each other every once in a while. I know that cross breeding species is dangerous. If i didn't know the risks i would have separated them a long time ago. and yes, the male dumerils has gotten into fights before with other snakes. It's a risk i am now willing to take because it seems no one has tried this and i think it would be interesting if anything comes from it.

Well, you called it an accident. I'm glad neither snake is aggressive towards each other, but still you have to admit that putting one snake into another's cage during cleaning isn't a good practice, at the very least to prevent spread of any disease, or mites, or other issue.

Just my opinion, when you post on a public forum, you've got to be prepared for all nature of opinions. I had no idea of your snake experience until you actually talk about it. Good luck with the litter, but unfortunately it's doubtful you will see anything, and hopefully the female will not retain slugs and develop health problems as a result.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com
1.0 Ball Python, 1.1 Hog Island Boas, 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 Green Tree Python

BULL* * * * Flag at Full Mast !

M/

n/p

I have males of both species, and this made me wonder what they would look like if they gave half of their genetic makeup to the other one. Could be interesting. Could be nothing. Any of those ANTI-CROSSING people out there? SHUT UP! Nobody cares. If it works, then great. I am far more worried about things greater than somebody trying something new.

Good luck with the experiment. Let us all know how it goes.
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1.0 Dumeril's Boa(acrantophis dumerili)
1.0 Argentine Boa(Boa constrictor occidentalis)

shut up? why are you in a forum if you don't want to hear different opinions, your eloquence?

Caden

I simply mean, that they don't need to go around harassing people. Do you not agree? Most of these people are very rude for no reason, and so yes I say SHUT UP to them.

n/p

First of all, I have no idea what n/p means. I see it everywhre. And yes, people have harassed me before. And after that I usually get pretty mean. I just don't understand why people freak out about stupid trivial little things, and become big jerks about it.
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1.0 Dumeril's Boa(acrantophis dumerili)
1.0 Argentine Boa(Boa constrictor occidentalis)

np
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.24 BRB
11.13 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats