Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi, i was cleaning out some cages a couple weeks ago and i put my male dumeril's ground boa in the same cage as my female argentine boa and to my surprise, they started mating. of course i couldnt pull them apart because i didnt want to risk injury or infection, but i left them alone and i am wondering if this has happened to anybody else and if so, did the eggs catch or not? and if they did catch, were the babies stillborn or are they still alive? any help would be great. thanks.

LUCKY YOU!

Actually I don't work with any large boids, so I can't tell you if this has been done or not. Maybe Horridus will check in and give us the scoop.

Yes this kind of accident does happen. I put a male Yellow Anaconda in with a female Columbian Boa for a cage cleaning and they ended up breeding and producing Boandas (BoaXAnacondas)If they are both sexuialy mature they will probiably produce some very intresting babies!

let me guess you didnt take any pics.
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Frank Roberts

if they take than you should get normal perfectly healthy babies
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jake

my addiction:
0.2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
1.0 albino cal king (zeus)
0.0.1 wc garter (zim)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

I believe this to be possible, I have seen bcc X Argentinean, no reason a dumeril wouldn't work, as for eggs you will not get any because all boas are live bearers except Casarea dussumieri (Round Island Boa), I would suggest several more breeding trials and setting up a hot spot of 86-90 degrees or you will likely get stillborns from not providing a hot and or basking spot to properly gestate the embryos, as far as I know this pairing hasn't been achieved but maybe so who knows, I think its a possible pairing that would result in viable offspring. The hot spot is important more so after a diagnosis of pregnancy is evident, usually within 4 weeks of mating in some boids, females will sometimes start refusing food and start lying in unusual positions (inverted with belly scutes facing upward etc...) Good luck!!
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Frank Roberts

you meant eggs = ovum not shelled eggs, sorry for the probable misunderstanding, regardless, the rest of my post still applies.
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Frank Roberts

Hasn't been done to my knowledge, there was a Colombian X Dumeril cross attempted that didn't take (although lots of livebearing breedings break your heart, I don't think it had anything to do with the species involved) The only Boa Hybrids I know of are the Columbian X Anaconda (off Tom's list MANY years ago) crosses and the Colombian Rainbow X Haitian Boa crosses. I would love to see photos of the Colombian X Yellow Anacondas the other poster referred to also, are there any adults out there? If you do get lucky and produce offspring PLEASE let me know LOL.

Horridus

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Frank Roberts

Actually I misspoke, the Boa X Anaconda cross was on Pet Farm's list and the Haitian X Rainbow was on Tom Crutchfield's list...and yes that's who I meant.

Horridus

I'd love to see a pic of a boa/anaconda, very interting indeed. I remember reading old crutchfield lists, i think it's name was herpetofauna. lol old days indeed
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Frank Roberts

Back before all this internet stuff I remember when the few of us around here would get our lists we would call our friends and see if they had recieved thiers and if not you got to read the whole thing over the phone to each other...god that was fun, the excitment of seeing those hot pink or puke green folded papers in the mailbox! I guess it's a great thing to be able to point &
click to see what everyone has now but it does take away some of the mystery & anticipation I used to enjoy.

Horridus

I remember those days, had those puke green list tuked in books, it was as good as playboy magazine lmao those were the days, i got my first ball python from crutchfield, had to pick it up at delta at newark airport in nj, it was at least 20 years ago along with some wild caught amazon tree boas, I was in heaven lol
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Frank Roberts

...later to become Glades Herps.

ALways that cruddy electric green....at least Tom's list was a different color each month

Chris

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Frank Roberts

Looked at my last puke green list...

I assume you meant Tom Crutchfield being Herpetofauna before it was Crutchfield's Reptile Enterprises, because that WAS the list that was always multicolored

Durfle flurfle flurb. Last snakes I bought from that guy were established amel sonorans that BOTH dropped dead on me 7 days after they were received (to be fair, one was on day six).

Still suckin' on sour grapes, I guess.

Chris

...He'll get tossed in the slammer for importing a bunch of fiji crested iguanas

Chris

so you think there might be a possibility of actually getting offspring? because i've looked around and no one seems to know if it has ever happened, but many people have been wondering about it...

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Frank Roberts

There's no doubt in my mind that it could produce viable offspring, after seeing what's been done (Ball X Short Tail, Woma X Ball, Carpet X Woma etc.) I don't think that a python x boa, or live bearer x egg layer more specificlly would work but that's just opinion. Only those with closed minds can't get over the first flaw in thier argument WE DON'T BREED SNAKES, we only allow animals to do what they will, and it's been proven time and again that with AND without the help of humans hybrids DO occur in the wild and in captivity. And to further that, humans are as much a part of what's "natural" as anything else...Do you think that who/whatever created all this couldn't comprehend that we would keep animals for pleasure? Or that we would travel between continents...that's pretty bold of you if you do. It all boils down to this....If it shouldn't happen.....IT WONT. There's obviously reasons human x ape hybrids aren't viable and for Donkey X Horse offspring to be sterile....those are the rules, if it can't be done than it wasn't supposed to have been...period

Of course this is all just my crazy opinion, not meant to be taken as anything but the ramblings of someone who has no formal training or schooling other than what life and my animals have taught me over the years.

If you take a step back and look at some of the rattlesnake sp./ssp. for example and how they are distributed you will see that perhaps hundreds of thousands of years ago three to four "species" of snakes are responsible for what's out there now....this is just a quick example of what I think.....take an durissus, and a horridus what what you get? Would look alot like the forms of molossus if you ask me...the range is right too. Of course this is all blind conjecture, but it's something to consider.

Or perhaps, I should get rid of all my non locale specific projects, stop thinking, read and believe only what's written and accepted and do my best, through contempt, ridicule & derision to make sure others that try realize thier obvious stupidity

Good luck with providing the proper environment for your boas to do what they wish!

Horridus

i have a female dumerils i could try with a "mutt" boa... red tailed/columbian... not sure if i would get anything though... my male boa is only about 6 feet long...
I was going to try to do something with my large female black headed python, but she died of an infection of some sort. it made her go crazy aggressive and she wouldn't eat... her stool was bright green and everywhere... cant seem to find out what it was though

keep trying those python x boid crosses. one of these days your bound to hit the jackpot!

idiot!

hey good job... but u obviosly dont know much if u think a dumerils and argentine mix is python x boid!!!!! DUMERILS GROUND BOA and ARGENTINE BOA!!! not the name BOA on each one... really, you must know everything... idiot....

he thought you meant you were going to try breeding your black head to a boa.

Also, didn't some one get some odd looking WC Amazon Tree boas a few years ago and hypothesise that they were Amazon X Emerald? Pretty sure Bateaters have been caught in the wild too.
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

I only respond to hard facts. Until someone posts some scientific evidence and anything other than just opinions then I honestly there's not much to talk about.

Yes there were wc bateaters. I found one once trying to eat my argentine X dumerils eggs...

John

There's been captive produced hybrids between Amazons & Emeralds as well as at least three instances of WC babies and the gravid imports you mentioned. (some of these are exceptionally beautiful, even in the first generation, which is somewhat unusual for hybrids)

The original "Bateater" was also reported to be WC, I don't know that there's been any subsequent animals found.

Horridus

I believe the Amazon Tree Boa X Emerald Tree Boa was repoted by Dave and Tracy Barker in The Vivarium or it could have also been in Reptiles Magazine. The Barkers are very credible IMO.

Yes, that was one...there were also the Stan Chiras litter, and some others. The one that Dave and Tracy had was one of the WC babies I think, it came into the country through Kamuran @ Bushmaster originally, but it could have been one of the gravid imports dropped it (can't remember for sure, will try to find out if anyone cares) regardless, it was what it was, a wild produced hybrid between caninus & hortulanus.

Horridus

Hey I just thought of this now. Isn't it possible that they hybridized in a holding cage in the country of origin too? I think that it probably does happen in nature on a rare basis but for science sake wouldn't we need a complete record of everything from who collected it, who exported it, who imported it and up to the Barkers who actually saw them born? Maybe the Barkers had all that info, I can't really remember exactly what the article said.

That's a great point, you are correct. There's holes in all the histories, some say that the captive birth that was photographed was actually from a captive breeding and not a wild breeding as reported. I think with Corallus it's more possible since they are a naturally sedentry animal. I just don't see a big female Emerald making that much of an effort to escape the courtship of a Amazon at least not as much as a gopher snake would protest being bred by a California King when there was room to escape. I am sure that some breedings do take place in the exporters holding facilities especially with animals routinely held together such as Burmese, Retics & Scrubs and Emeralds, Amazons & Annulateds. If it can be proven that any of the import gravid animals that produced hybrids were held by the exporters for less time than the gestation of a Emerald than I think we can be fairly certain that they were wild breedings but that kind of information is almost impossible to obtain with any kind of reliability.

Horridus

I think there have been enough true wild hybrids to say that it is definitley possible with species so closely related as the tree boa complex.

Dear Genius,
Boas do not have eggs.
Thank you,
Anders

Dear Genius,
I think you meant they don't lay eggs.
Thank you.

technicality schmecnicality