Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry I don't really know very much, but are leucistic and ivory ball pythons the same? Ivory seem to be a lot cheaper, so I assumed they weren't but from the pictures I've seen they look the same. In any case, with both, what are they descents from, and are they a genetic proven morph?

Thanks
Taren

Taren,

To date there have been nine different ways of making a white ball python.
The only recessive method is the Snow Ball that is made of F2 offspring of Albinos crossed with Axanthics.
The other eight methods include:
1.Lesser to Lesser
2.Mojave to Mojave
3.Butter to Butter
4.Vin Russo het to Vin Russo het
5.Mocha to Mocha
the snakes above produce a blue eyed Leucistic Ball python
6.Fire to Fire
7.Yellowbelly to Yellowbelly
the last two make a black eyed white snake.
8.many combinations between the first 5 on the list.
a tenth possibility is the Woma to Woma but it remains a mystery for now.

Hope this has been helpful.

Amir

a snake with blue eyes and a slightly tinted patern?
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

Ok here's the deal,

An Ivory is a leucy, but a leucy doesn't have to be an Ivory.

Alot of people out there don't consider the Ivory or Pearl(Super/Homozygous version of Woma) to be Lucies, but they are indeed. Their beef is that these animals have appreciable amounts of pigment(yellow dorsal stripe and head purpling for the Ivory, and an offwhite color with the pearls), but small amounts of pigment other than black(melanin) are allowed, but no patterning.

Also, just thought I'd throw in there that technically Pieds are also leucisitic, but in only a partial manner.

Here's some more reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism

-Dan

The problem actually lies in that no one has tested balls to confirm if these animals are "just producing white animals" or are "incapable of producing the proper chemicals that display pigment" if they are incapable then they would be True Leucitic if they are just making white snakes then they aren't. Just as Albinos aren't Leucitic so might be the case of the different "Lucy's." Pieds may be the only true leucitic ball there is - but without testing no one knows for certain one way or another.
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Tosha

Tosha,

What you are describing fits more firmly to the debate over T /T/-T albinos, not so much with leucies. If the animal has areas that are white, with lack of patterning(once again yellow splotches are fine, just no alien heads like a true albino). There does not need to be a test done, these are leucy, no if ands or butts about it. Once again a white animal with non-red eyes, and no patterning is a lucy. For example, you wouldn't call one of Tom's Crystal Balls a lucy, because even though it is predominantly white, with dark eyes, it still has discernible pattern, just as you wouldn't call a snow ball(axanthic albino) a lucy, because every animal produced so far still has some patterning to them; but if you were able through selective breeding to remove the pattern completely, then it would just make the snow ball a multi-trait lucy, though they would be VERY hard to reproduce due to the many factors involved. This would result in a red-eyed lucy, just as if you made an albino super mojave,etc.

Lastly, in reptiles Luecisism in most cases is a description of phenotype(observable appearance) not a defined genotype. What this means is that there are multiple factors resulting in offspring that fall within the definition of a Lucy.

Hope this helps,
Dan