Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For those of you that don't know, I've been in the planning stage of building 2 large burmese python cages for a few months now. Actually, I had planned on having them built by now but "life" had other plans for me.

The cages will be in 2 or 3 parts that can be assembled/disassembled. Most likely 3 parts (2 halves and the face, with sliding glass doors). The size will be somewhere around 10' x 3' x 2.5’ but that's not a definite. I've got plenty of room. I don't really want anything much smaller, though.

I've been planning on using 3/4" oak or birch plywood. Up till last week I was going to line the inside with some type of safe poly, wilsonart, or, FRP. But, last weekend I got a line on some sintra. I can get 1/4" or 1/2" in just about any color. I've never seen the stuff up close before so I'm dying to see what its like. I'm going by there next week to check it out. Once I see it I can decide if I want to (or can) use the 1/2" for the carcass instead of the 3/4" ply. Or, use the 1/4" to line the ply.

Chris, for reference, here's your last post from that other thread:

I think by having a raised floor I can keep the floor on the inside unobstructed by joinng the halves under the floor and with the supports on the front, back & top. (Mike)

I was going to mention this idea in my previous reply but decided not to. The biggest issue here is having a lower slot for a divider to slide into. If you use some sort of shim for a natural separation between the halves then that can become plugged with substate and/or dried urates or deficate. Not good.

Or you can just have some sort of moulding on each half that acts as a slot. (Chris)

Problem I'm having is figuring out how to keep waste minimal for a 10-ft cage since I've been unable to find anything in 5-foot lengths except for 1/4". Make it 12-foot long? How about 16? LOL!!!

I also hate creating waste, but if you use Sintra I think you'll find the scrap useful for various things. Maybe build an incubator or small rack that you can sell locally to help defray some of the costs.

Give me a size range of what is acceptable to you for the cage. Something like "no smaller than" 10 x2 x 1.5 and "no bigger than" 12 x 3 x 2.5, or whatever. I might have some ideas.

Obviously you're welcome to take this to email. I think you know where to reach me and I certainly owe you

I like the dowel or pin idea the best. I don't really need a cage with a divider but there are times when it would/could come in handy. Maybe have it to where the end wall that stops the glass, on one side, could be removed by a removing a few screws to allow the glass to recess far enough.

I like dividers but am a firm believer that they need to be easy to use or they won't be used. Well unless you want a cage that can be semi-peranently divided in half, but that does not seem to apply to you. I'm not sure I'm following your idea, but it sounds like a few to many steps to take to allow you to put a divider into a cage of an otherwise tame snake.

As for a divider, I don't think I'd want a slot or recess in the floor, either, so using some kind of molding on the front & back supports to hold a divider sounds best to me.

What I was talking about on the removable end wall would be more work as far as inserting/removing a divider but I thought it would give it more of a clean, professional look versus using a dowel or pin as a stop. Its hard for me to explain what I've got pictured in my mind. It probably wouldn’t work anyway.

The only reasons I thought about a divider is (1) if I were to keep 2 snakes in one cage, making it easier to separate them for feeding, (2) if for some reason or another, on down the road, I needed the cage for 2 smaller snakes.

I never thought about a divider for cleaning purposes until Melisssss said something about it. It makes sense to block a large Burmese off to one side while cleaning the other to avoid having people read about you. As it is now, I remove mine, but with a bigger cage and a divider, you wouldn’t have to. My reptile room will be set up so that the burms can have free roam while I clean so I won’t have to worry about them getting into something they shouldn’t. A divider, at this time, isn’t a “must have.” I can do with or without it.

Scrap/Waste
I’ve got a few other reptiles that wouldn’t mind a bigger cage if I can end up with big enough pieces. The smallest would be for a Leopard Gecko. I’m not too worried about costs, as long as its not wasted.

Minimum cage size: 10 x 3 x 2 (L x W x H)
Maximum cage size: 14 x 4 x 2.5

Three feet deep (width) is a bit deep but I feel it’s important for a large burm to be able to coil comfortably. 2 ½ feet would be tight for a 16-footer or above to coil within. Mine may not get that big, but if it does, I’ll be prepared.

BTW, Chris, you don’t owe me a thing. Glad to have been able to help. Besides, I was merely returning a favor. You & Jeremy have helped me a lot with this caging ordeal. A few others have chipped in some, too.

Thanks to everyone for posting your cage ideas & pics. They’re very helpful.

I’m about halfway finished with my rabbit pens. I’ve got to hurry & get ‘em finished because my rabbits are breeding like……………, well…, rabbits. It’s a 12 foot, 5 pen unit with 2 x 4 frame.

Tune in next week for the sequel to this. LOL!!!

Ya’ll take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Well its a long post so I am having trouble picking out something to start with.

One thing that stands out is the divider issue.

I think regardless of how tame the animal is a divider can become a necessary evil for cleanings, like you said than at least you know where they are and geting into.

So how do you make a divider that is easy to use but doesn't create a nightmare. Obviously when removed there will be a gap some where that requires filling. It seams obvious to me, maybe you have though of this, but I would have two dividers one that would divide the cage and another that would filll the gap.

By this I mean if you build the divider to slide in a channel around the entire interior with only a single hole in the front to be removed. You will end up with a channel in the shape of a U along the bottom, back, and ceiling, and of course the appropriate thickness whole in the front for its removal. This gap of course would create a nice place to poop, and a very difficult area to clean. So I would essentialy build a divider cut (essentially a face frame, hole in middle) to fill all the gaps, so when installed it created a flush surface with the rest of the cage frame. Than you would simply swap dividers when cleaning.

Seams simply to me but its really hard to explain without pictures.

Obviously another way to go would be to cut say a 10" hole between the two over which a plate could be installed on eitehr side while cleaning. This would make the process a little more involved but with a tame snake just as easy.

Another thing, and not trying to burst your bubble here. Sintra stains fairly easy so if you go that route try and avoid light colors.

This might be a better product for stain resistance, although I didn't ask the product rep about that aspect;

http://www.waterproofpanels.com/korlytewhite.shtml

I think you will find the product to be very heavy over that of wood but very resistant to scraches (it can be scrached)

Lots of stuff out there to use, as a fellow perfectionist I telling you its a pain trying to find the perfect product, or Tote for that matter. LOL

In the end I think we all need to decide what we work with best and stick to that.

Good Luck

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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

Hey "Daddy!"
Congratulations!!! How is mom & child? Are you getting any sleep at night, yet? Your life will be forever changed, and for the better.

I think I see what you're talking about on the divider, (1) the frame that would fill the voids when divider is out (2) the 10" hole suggestion.

I want the inside to be totally unobstructed but the face plate idea is something I've thought about. It could be used as a shield while putting it in place, but, the problem I see is with how it would be attached to the center supports. If screwed into place, this would leave exposed wood (screw/bolt holes) vulnerable to moisture, etc...

I'll most likely use something like a face plate. I'll just have to come up with a way to keep moisture out of the holes when its not in place. Actuallly, for no more than I think I'd use it, I could probably just dab a bit of silicone into the holes when the dividing face plate isn't in place. Nope, scratch that idea. I just now thought about the fumes. I'll figure something out. Neoprene washers on the screws and keep them in place when divider is out? Yeah, that oughta work.

"Another thing, and not trying to burst your bubble here. Sintra stains fairly easy..."

Bubble bursted. Thanks, Jeremy! LOL!

Now that you mention it, I think you or someone else told me that before but I forgot. Thanks for the "heads up." That wouldn't be too much of an issue for me for the flooring but it is for the "catch-all" or "splash" around the bottom of the walls. I was thinking of going with a dark green, if available, or something other than white. Once I see the sintra I'll know whether or not I should go another route.

I like the Korlyte White and I see a hardware store not too far from me is a dealer. I'd rather have the floor one solid piece instead of a protective lining. I don't mind lining the lower walls, though. I'll have to look into it, comparing strength and cost to melamine. If I can seal the cage as good as I'm planning on, melamine should last as long as the the rest of the carcass. BUT, I always try to go the extra mile for the "what if".

If the sintra doesn't pan out I've been planning on going with some tyupe of laminate, like Wilsonart or maybe even formica. I haven't priced formica, yet, but the Wilsonart is $30 or $40 per 4x8 sheets.

"In the end I think we all need to decide what we work with best and stick to that."

LOL!!! If I could ever ACCEPT anything less than perfect, I could STICK with it. LOL!!! Funny thing; my wife's exactly the ooposite. Its funny how over the years we both have moved a bit closer to the middle, with her taking more pride and me accepting less than perfect.

If ya'll see Santa Claus, tell him I want a table saw for Christmas.

Thanks, and, take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Thanks, Mom and baby are doing great! I sleep right through the night Trevor however has other ideas, fortunatly mom is a lighter sleeper and wakes up first. I end up waking up when she watches TV trying to get him back to sleep. Than of course I can't go back to sleep. All the joys of parenthood!

When I build my cages I recess the bottom top and back a bit inside the sider panels. If you made this recess something like 1" you would have a nice flange on all sides but the front to bolt the two cages together. Between which you could build the channel, it works in my head but its hard to explain.

If you need me to I can doodle pic on paint so you can get a better idea of what I am talking about.

Formica goes for about $2 a sq foot and comes in 4x8 and 4x12 sheets.

Good Luck
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

Jeremy,
Not to be nosey but do you remember aprox. how much you've got in that cage rack? And what are the dimensions, again? I know I've asked you before but I forgot. I'll write it down this time.

If/wehn I ever get these burm cages built I'm going to build a rack or stackable system for some of my other reptiles and I'd like to compare costs, pros, cons to Djinn's cage that he posted the other day.

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

If you are talking about my HC shelf rack it cost $30 a tub to build. I spent a significant amount less due to the fact I had a lot of material but pricing it out it was $30 a tub. I have an Excel sheet documenting the spread.

If you are talking about the cage stack, I don't have a clue. That was built in the days before I cared about costs. LOL

Anything else you need feel free to email me.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.10 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.2 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

Thanks, Jeremy!

"That was built in the days before I cared about costs. LOL"

Heh, those days are gone for awhile. Trevor says so. LOL!

Catch ya later!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

As for a divider, I don't think I'd want a slot or recess in the floor, either, so using some kind of molding on the front & back supports to hold a divider sounds best to me... The only reasons I thought about a divider is (1) if I were to keep 2 snakes in one cage, making it easier to separate them for feeding, (2) if for some reason or another, on down the road, I needed the cage for 2 smaller snakes.

If you do go the Sintra route you can just use strips of leftover material or even use PVC corner angle. You could even use the PVC corner angle to cover up the exposed edges of the cage to give it a clean look. I do think that if you're considering a divider for the reasons you listed you might as well make it easier to use for safety reasons. Maybe even use it for offering food so the snake never associates the door opening with food coming in.

What I was talking about on the removable end wall would be more work as far as inserting/removing a divider but I thought it would give it more of a clean, professional look versus using a dowel or pin as a stop.

I think the removable dowels could be made to look really slick. Sort of like some of the wedged joints you see in craftsman furniture.

Minimum cage size: 10 x 3 x 2 (L x W x H)

Three feet deep (width) is a bit deep but I feel it’s important for a large burm to be able to coil comfortably. 2 ½ feet would be tight for a 16-footer or above to coil within.

I do believe that a 3' deep cage can be used although it is beyond my personal comfort zone. One thing to keep in mind it how large of a front opening you'll have. You'll want upper and lower lips for support and for something to attach your modular face frame to. I would say that 2.5" is an absolute minimum and even that is probably not enough. Subtract that and the thickness of the floor and ceiling and you're losing at least 6" of space. In a 24" tall cage that's leaving you with an 18" opening to fit through to get to that stubborn pile of seemingly welded on burmese urates in the back corner.

That's a long-winded way of saying that I strongly believe that as a cage gets deeper, it should also get taller. I think it makes it safer and easier to clean for the keeper.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I think I've about decided on going with a face plate of sort, something that attaches to the center supports from one side or another. (described in my reply to Jeremy, above)

I now see how the dowels could be made to look good. I was just thinking of a bland ol' dowel stuck in there.

A 3ft deep cage is out of the comfort zone for me, too, as far as cleaning/accessing goes. Especially if its a floor model. I plan on setting it on some sort of stand/cabinet so that will make it a tad bit better.

Excellent point about the height and opening size! That's what makes these forums so great, when a person gets to thinking about one thing they might overlook another and someone else can see it & point it out. Thanks!

I'm trying to keep one dimension small enough to fit through an interior doorway just in case its ever needed to. Most interior doorways are 32" but some are 30". I may have to sacrifice some dam space, litter dam, not "curse". LOL!

I'll have to toss this around in the ol' noggin' a bit and come up with something. Thanks fot the "heads up," Chris!

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.