Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm considering getting my first venomous snake within the next year and it'd be great to get some opinions. I'm waiting until I have a vision cage with 2 locks, and some snake hooks. And until I feel I have enough info before getting into it. I plan on not getting bitten so I'm intending to be well educated before getting it. So any help you can give will be appreciated.

I'm looking for something that has venom that isn't too powerful. I live in Maine, and I'm positive the local hospital does not have anti-venom. So in the event I get bit I wanna be able to suck the venom out, wrap the limb tightly with something to limit blood flow, and wait 24 hours for anti-venom, without dying. For this reason I am considering an eyelash viper, as I hear the aren't too potent. I'm pretty much looking for vipers, maybe a cobra. So any reccomendations on that issue would be helpful, and any caresheets on that snake would help.

I'm looking for help, not a lecture. I know this is a huge responsibility, so I do not need a tremendous lecture trying to talk me out of it. Thanks.

This has got to be a fake post meant as a joke...... Suck the venom out??? Wait 24 hours for AV??? Pretty much looking for vipers, maybe a cobra??? I wont even get into it.....

i pretty much feel the same way as gaboonkeeper, but in the event you are serious here it goes

first, i wouldnt consider an eyelash or a cobra, eyelash vipers require some strict husbandry standards and not saying that you wouldnt abide by them i just think you need more experience with hots first.i dont beleive in elapids or arboreals as first hots, elapids are very fast and some dont hook well, arboreals have an extremely long strike range that is easy to get caught in.

if i were you i would start out with a small species of terrestrial viper. copperhead, cottonmouth, pygmy rattlesnake are all good first hots, your hospital should be able to supply antivenom in the event you get bit by one of these native species.

i haver been keeping hots for four years mainly gaboons and rhinos with a smattering of other vipers and i just recently got my first arboreal, a trimersurus trigoncephalus, and let me tell you those guys can leap they also can wind up a hook with relative ease.

please dont take this as a lecture because its not it was meant in good faith because i dont wantr to see anyone get hurt, with that said i believe that keeping on of the above mentioned snakes would be a very rewarding learning expereince for you

Obtaining the proper caging & hooks is a good first step, but there's one other thing you ought to acquire before getting the snake. Your own antivenin. Suction as snakebite treatment is not particularly effective, although some venom may be removed if the suction is applied immediately. Waiting 24 hours for antivenin for any bite is an excellent recipe for loss of limb if not life.

Living where you do, you also need to look into a good cage heating system with a power back-up in case you lose power during a winter storm.

~~Greg~~

that you suggested as a form of initial treanment clearly shows that you haven't done your home work. That you doubt that the local hospital or zoo could provive AV and you managed to make NO indications that you were securing your own, that your first hot you want is only one of fastest , more easily provoked elaphids( like most elaphids aren't inclined to be annoyed with your presence ) eyelash vipers can be very snappy particularly if hungry or closely pressed, a condition which they determine, not you. AV treatment for bothropechis is mandatory for while they might kill you be assured you could well have to use the hooks with one hand, cause the other required amputation. The responsibility is huge--not for you--for the neighborhood and the hobby, were it only you that was effected---nothing teaches like experience--especially bad experiences--they teach the best, unfornately they always teacj with a degree of finality, that you seldom can ignore. Ignore us, at your own peril, but please remember it's not your life that is important, should a cobra of size unass the hook and take off --it's your obligation to ensure it's caught, even if it means you have to take a bite to do it. Your neighbors, and family come very first--your health is a very distant 2nd.
something to reflect on.
Barry

sg

I would say the viper idea is a very good one, but it will in no way compare to owning a cobra. My advice would definately be to get the tools of the trade, get a nice big coachwhip, practice working with it in the heat of the day when he is all warmed up, that will definately give you insight into how fast and easy it is to get bit with a semi fast striking snake. Always use the tools with it as if it were a deadly snake, that should give you a little skill building practice. As far as a first hot, I would say definately a nice copper or a cottonmouth, they are inexpensive, usually pretty aggro and would definately be a great beginner hot. Good luck and I hope I helped.
Kevin

given that you MAY be serious. You need a permit to keep venomous snakes in Maine.

Yes and when I lived in maine fish and wildlife didn't just give permits out left and right either. And that was for snakes like boas and pythons. I know they have made more snakes avaiable without permits, but when I talked to them they didn't seem like they particulary wanted to give any out.

Go visit the Crotalidae forum here at kingsnake.
Check out the posts about the guy who got bit by the Rhino Viper (by all accounts, not a fast moving snake - but a quick striking one!) and DIED.
Or check out the post about Mardi getting bit by a Death Adder and then ask around about Mardi's experience level (high!).

People who start out with "I want/need some advice..."
and finish with "I don't want a lecture or negative feedback..."
wind up being a post about some guy who got bit and died.

If you really are interested then pick a target animal and study it. Find someone who keeps it and learn from them. Go see one taken care of in captivity (for longer than it takes to watch it on a table at Hamburg!). But DON'T tell the experienced keepers that you are asking advice from that you don't want to hear any lectures! Venomous keeping isn't something you just decide you might like to try like Vanilla Coke! It requires the ability to learn!

Cheerfully Chomping On The Cheese That Goes Crunch
The Mouse In The House

Short and to the point. I'm going to say what these other folks have tried to avoid saying to keep from hurting your feelings. You don't have the maturity and attitude it takes to safely keep dangerously venomous snakes. Simple as that. Not trying to hurt your feelings here, but if it does...oh well. Maybe it will make you reflect a little on your approach to this and avoid making the worst (and possibly last) mistake of your life.

Facts:

1. You may not HAVE 24 hours after a serious envenomation. After a certain point in time after a bite, antivenin is useless. For most species that time expires long before 24 hours.

2. You may not have 24 MINUTES after a bite, depending on species, quantity of venom injected, location of bite and your sensitivity to the venom.

3. Suction is essentially useless. You'd be better off to keep a radial arm saw handy and just cut off the affected limb within 30 seconds or so.

You are considering a potentially very dangerous endeavor after having obviously done ZERO research. Foolhardy at best.

I come here asking for help on hots and get shot down with comments like "You haven't done your homeowrk", but isn't that exactly what I'm doing here? It's going to be about a year since I get this hot, and I intend to do homework, and I don't like the rude comments. Because I'm sure you weren't born with almighty knowledge of hots, now were you? So don't give me crap when I try to do research. Man, it just really irks me when I TRY and learn, and get crap for it. When you do crap like that, it'll discourage potential hot owners from asking questions, so instead of going into hots with good info, they get them being half clueless as to what they're doing. All because they were afraid all they'd get were lectures and rude comments. So whats the point of even being in the venomous forum, if you're not going to help newbies? What's the good if you're not helping, just being jerks? Try and explain this. And I specifically asked for no lectures because I knew full well the majority of comments would be such.

As to those of you who helped, this does not apply to you. Thanks for your help.

And what I meant by sucking was that I've seen these devices that you apply to a bite and pump venom out. I imagine it'd help somewhat. And can you supply me with a link for where I can get anti-venom? I'm thinking about a cottonmouth...

Maine laws are overly strict, I'll try to get the permit, but it isn't something I'm counting on.

You didn't make that clear in your original post. You also made it sound like you have presuppositions that were just plain wrong and could be dangerous. If people sounded like they were yelling at you, it's just because they were concerned for your safety. We take this seriously because no one wants anyone to end up like the firefighter in Ohio did recently. Don't take it personally, but take it to heart.

You're not overly concerned about Maine's permit. I take it that means that you will attempt to get one, but if unsuccessful, will go ahead & get the snake anyway.

~~Greg~~

.

You know, you have been given some sound advice. You can choose to take it seriously or not. As Meretseger said, some of the responses may be harsh in your opinion, but this is no joking matter. People are responding in a strong manner because it's obvious even to the most casual observer that you are in no way ready to keep venomous snakes. We do not enjoy reading about people being bitten, or venomous snakes escaping and causing panic, etc. First off, it's tragic when someone is bitten. Secondly, it's bad press that nobody in the herp community wants when someone is bitten or has an escape or is arrected for ILLEGALLY KEEPING VENOMOUS SNAKES. Thirdly, people who aren't ready for or aren't capable of keeping venomous snakes usually become very afraid of their animals after a short period of time. Then the animal suffers because the keeper doesn't want to open it's cage or handle it for tasks like cage cleaning, medication, etc.

When you react to the advice you've been given like a little kid that has been told he can't go to the candy store, you only reinforce what we were already able to see from your first post. You aren't ready. Instead of pitching a tantrum because someone said something that you didn't want to hear, you should be backing up a step and thinking "Hey, they might be right..I need to go off and think about this a little and do some more research."

You get on here in your first post and say (to paraphrase) "I want to get a venomous snake. Nothing terribly poisonous, maybe a Pit Viper or a Cobra. That way, if I get bitten, I can suck the venom out, wait 24 hours for the antivenin to arrive, take the antivenin and go on my merry way."

Let's see...what's wrong with this picture? Why on earth would we think you hadn't done your homework? Could it be that cut and suction hasn't been used for more than 20 years, because it has been proven beyond a doubt that it is essentially useless and does more harm than good? Could it be that ANY species of Cobra could hardly be considered "not terribly venomous"? Could it be that almost any species of Pit Viper (such as Eyelash Viper) has the potential to deliver a fatal bite, and at the very least cause severe tissue damage possibly requiring an amputation? Could it be that you don't have 24 hours after a venomous bite to get antivenin therapy in bites from the vast majority of species? Could it be that you didn't know any of this?

Then you get on here and pitch a fit because people reacted to your obvious lack of knowledge coupled with the fact that you were considering getting maybe a Cobra. You've just proved the point.

When you come back here with a little knowledge under your belt, and it's obvious you've been doing your homework, then you can expect people to be more encouraging and offer more advice and help with what you want to do. No one in their right mind is going to contribute to your getting a venomous animal under these circumstances.

It has nothing to do with "almighty knowledge". We can't spoon feed you what it takes to get you ready for keeping venomous animals. You have to go off and get that knowledge yourself. When you have enough working knowledge of the animals you are interested in keeping, then go find someone that can coach you IN PERSON, on the correct handling tools and techniques. You can't get that from a forum.

n/p

As a point of intrest, the statistic most frequebtly cited by India, the place where " somethoing not venomous like a cobra ". for the most patrt comes from is in the neighbor of 20,000 DEATHES annually with the bulk of the bites comming from members of the elaphide family , more specifically the Naja group. As for the 24 hours time frame, and compression bandage you would like to use, in no litrature I have read di they give ANY indications that the bandage is to be used for anything more then a few hours, thats because the bandage does not stop venom from continuing to circulate elaphid venom has a smaller molecular structure then viperids,, but then I am sure you also knew that. Whats that mean---well it means that while viperid venoms for the most part, are using your lymphatic system to spread through your bdy till they can freely enter a larger blood vessel. Elaphid venoms need not wait they also use the lymphatic system but not to the same degree as viperids, the smaller molecules have no problems entering even the smallest blood vessels. from that point on it's a race, one with out prompt emergency medical treatment you lose. With comression bandages you get swelling control, and a slowing down of the spread, not hardly a stopping of the spread, again am sure you knew that. Ohh as for cutting and sucking----as been stated you know that that proceedure is obsolete, but if you do, must cut to a depth of where the venom is " pocketing " not just skin level. but must act fast within seconds and hope you have a bullet to bite as I said to the depth of the venom pocket less then that is almost a complete waste of time. Hmmmmin eyelash vipers the fang lengthes approach what 3/4 of a inch a inch long most cobras while their over all fang lengthes are considerable shorter still to about .50 inch there abouts. Enjoy the surgery and guppies have very little toxcity to their bite so I would have no heartburn about them
buddy.
Still think we are persecuting you, you poor thing--I can with 100% certianity say that your State officials would be 1000% less tolerant of you, and the snake in the vacinity of 100000% less tolerant of errors, and poor handling techniques. But then you already knew that as well.
Barry

If you don't care about getting the proper permits. You shouldn't get the snake. I'm not saying that the permit system is always fair, but at least think about the snakes well being over how much you want a pet snake. If you get bitten, don't have permits, then fish and wildlife find out they'll take the snake out your home. What will happen to this snake? It could go to someone else, who they think will take care of it responsibly, in which case your out the money you spent on the snake, medical bills annd a large fine. Or the other very real possibility is that they'll destroy the snake, in which case an animal has been killed for no reason, just because you didn't care.
Then on top of that it makes it that much harder for anyone else to get permits for their snakes. Personally I don't care about your life. If it gets taken away by the snake you choose. Then so be it, but you should never get an animal and intend on putting its well bing second to your own. It had no choice in the matter of where it was living.
-----
There is nothing to live for, unless there is something more important to die for.

Hey,

Deciding on your first hot can be a difficult process. I'm also new to hots and I decided to start with a copperhead. My little guy is awesome! He's definitely nothing to fool around with, but not as dangerous as some other vipers.

I've spent years working with pythons/boas and the most challenging aspect is a total "hands-off" approach. It's like driving with you left foot

I would recommend a copperhead. They are beautiful snakes...
Make sure to buy CBs

VJ