Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I do reptile rescue for my area and I also get alot of advice type phone calls ect. Lately I have run into several box turtles with swollen eyes. I know that you can maintenance thier eyes with commercial eye drops but what is the method most of you use to bring boxies back to health. My vet ususally perscribes genmtimicin drops which work well. What in your opinions is the main cause of this? Vitamin deficiency, chill, too dry, too moist,? Also note that all of these are indoor turtles because our area is too cold for outdoors most of the year. Some of these turtles do have uvb lighting. Most have heat. My personal boxies rarely experience this trouble. One of my most neglected rescues will sometime develope a problem in just one eye but the drops fix this up. Ok turtle pros, whats the best advice to give these folks (besides go to the vet, I work for a vet so I say this alot,lol).
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3.5.0 Beardies
1.2.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.1 Box Turtles
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise
0.1.0 Russian Tortoise
1.3.0 Ball Pythons
2.1.0 corn snakes
0.1.0 great plains rat snake
1.1.0 Blue Beauty Snakes
1.0.0 Banana King snake
1.0.0 Desert King snake
2.7.0 Guinea Piggies
3.6.0 Dumbo rats
1.0.0 Blue Front Amazon Parrot
0.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrot
1.1.0 house cats
2.0.0 Maine Coon Cats
2.0.0 Boxers

"I know that you can maintenance thier eyes with commercial eye drops but what is the method most of you use to bring boxies back to health. My vet ususally perscribes genmtimicin drops which work well. What in your opinions is the main cause of this? Vitamin deficiency, chill, too dry, too moist,?"

My experience has been that, for turtles kept inside, a lack of adequate humidity in their enclosure is frequently the culprit.

I would recommend that the turtle keepers use a substrate that retains plenty of moisture, that they mist the habitat frequently, and that they make sure their turtle always has clean water available to it in a shallow container that is roomy enough for the turtle to soak in.

I would never recommend using commercial eye drops in any kind of 'maintenance' program: a turtle being kept in an environment that meets its basic needs would have no need for them.

Also, repeated use of an antibiotic eye drop or ointment when no infection is present is really not a good idea in the long run.

I agree with Steph that it is probably a humidity issue. I use regular saline solution (for contact lenses)to rinse my guys eyes, but nothing other than that unless there is an infection, then I get the prescription.

Thanks to you both for the input. My vet has mentioned vitamin A deficience but since I see a rise in this problem in the fall I was suspicous of other reasons as well. I would guess this is a lack of humidity since most of use heat our houses with a dry sort of heat. As for the eye drops I'll let them know to use only when there is an eye issue ( one person said she used them weekly). Again my thank you's for your assistance.
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3.5.0 Beardies
1.2.0 Crested Geckos
1.1.1 Box Turtles
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise
0.1.0 Russian Tortoise
1.3.0 Ball Pythons
2.1.0 corn snakes
0.1.0 great plains rat snake
1.1.0 Blue Beauty Snakes
1.0.0 Banana King snake
1.0.0 Desert King snake
2.7.0 Guinea Piggies
3.6.0 Dumbo rats
1.0.0 Blue Front Amazon Parrot
0.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrot
1.1.0 house cats
2.0.0 Maine Coon Cats
2.0.0 Boxers

Most vit A issues can be quickly remedied with shredded carrots, in my experience. I had a tort that got an overdose of Vit A prescribed by a not a good herp vet. I finally got things straightened out by getting a second opinion from a good herp vet!

I haven't had this problem with adults in quite some
time, I do have it come up with babies and juvis
occasionally.

In my case, mine have enough humidity, so I always
consider vitamin A a possibility as well as just
a straight bacterial infection.

I think the vitamin A injections are risky and
unnecessary. WIth a severe case in an adult,
I would just put a drop of cod liver oil in some
force feed mixture and feed that to them, and make
sure they get that drop about once every two weeks.

I also use some of the eye washes for turtles that
you can get at petstores. One is more of a saline
solution, the other actually has some vitamin A in
it.

I also use a triple antibiotic eye ointment, or there
is a Terramycin Eye Ointment that is available over the
counter at some pet or farm stores. My vet has prescribed
it for turtles before, but it is available over the counter.

I would not use the drops or antibiotic eye ointments if they aren't having any problems. And, especially with babies, I try a force feed mixture with herptivite vitamins mixed in.

The Herptivite has vitamin A in the form of Beta Carotine, which is safer. I avoid giving cod liver oil to babies and juvies because too much can cause skin peeling and could kill them if they had too much. With adults a drop of cod liver oil is literally enough.

Basically it just takes time and patience using the above
methods.

In my neck of the mesquite the problem is almost always a vitamin A deficiency. I really do think this is a regional problem & a people problem.
I remember years ago phwyvern telling me that in her neck of the woods it's almost always a problem caused by lack of humidity.
Here where I am what's seen in captive boxies 9 times out of 10 is caused by lack of proper nutrition. 9 times out of 10 they also have an ear infection to go with the closed eyes by the time they're taken to a vet for treatment.
The drops aren't the answer for those I've seen around here. I am not a huge fan either of the injections although I've not seen any skin sloughing for those who've had only one injection to jump start them then get them started on a proper diet.
I don't see the need for the eye drops as long as they're on a proper diet & in the right set up.
I've seen boxies here recover beautifully once the owners understand how to feed them. It's a really big problem here because too many people hoard box turtles in their backyards.

The vet I use is the only real herp vet in this area but there are many others who will treat box turtles because it's so common to see them brought in. A lot of vets keep a diet sheet on the computer to print out for people because they see so many sick boxies.
What I'd say to people on the phone would be what so many have said here.. first check the humidity, then go over the diet to make sure it's got enough natural vitamin A in it.
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PHRatz

Usually, if it is humidity, I think it will clear
up pretty easily with an improvement in environment.

I mainly use the drops to help get the eyes open.
Once they are open and clear, I stop using them.

I haven't seen it in adults since the first year or two
that I got into this hobby/interest. There is a learning curve on feeding. I'd put some collard greens (full leaves) out for them and they wouldn't touch it. I learned to chop it up and mix it with some romain and I had better luck.

I started feeding tomatoes frequently and they enjoyed them.

I also transplanted dandilions into their pen and they really loved them. Wasn't able to to it as much this summer because of the drought.

Now I only see it in some babies and I see it in ornates
more than three toeds, probably because ornates (in my experience anyway) are more finicky about fruits and veggies.

All my babies get vitamin dusted bugs, and gut loaded bugs, since some don't go for the veggies as well as others.

I have 7 ornate babies from Dottie that hatched in 2005.
Last spring I noticed that the two smallest ones seemed to
have alot of substrate clinging to them and when I cleaned
it off, I discovered, to my horror that some of the skin on
their faces had eroded away. One had his eyes stuck shut
as well. I didn't see any mites or any kind of external
parasite that could be doing this and the other five turtles
were fine.

So, I pulled the two out, kept them in a plastic shoebox with a water dish. Cleaned their faces with nolvasan, made sure they ate some vitamin coated bugs, and gave them some forcefeed mixture made up of babyfood chicken and vitamins also.

Their faces cleared up and eventually I put them in with the others.

A couple of weeks ago I notice almost the same thing again.
Not quite as bad. One had a small amount of skin erosion on his face the other one had closed eyes and it almost looks like
there is some sort of tissue growth over part of the eyes.
Oddly enough he seems to have some vision still.

I started researching vitamin A deficiency and saw something about keratinization on eyes as a symptom.

Thing is, is these two get as much vitamin A as the others in their group. None of them are good about eating greens, but they all get herptivite on their bugs.

So, my hypothesis, at this point is that maybe because of their small size, they haven't built up enough reserve or something.

I've got them both back in the shoebox and instead of just giving them babyfood chicken, I mixing the chicken 1:1 with babyfood carrots, since beta carotine is supposed to be a safe way to administer vitamin A. Hopefully they will build up the reserves they need. I'll probably give some of this to their clutchmates and the other babies that aren't eating greens very well.

If I can, I'll try to get a photo of the one with the weird
eyes, but he is so tiny, I'll need to get my hubby's macro lens.
Hopefully I can get some before and after shots to document what vitamin A deficiency can look like.