Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My point, and question:

1- A male Pinstripe ($2500) bred to a female Spider ($1500) should give you a couple of Spinners. Based on the approximate price of the breeder animals at the time of purchase, and based on the price of the animals at the time of hatching, is there a pricing formula or is the pricing all "market feel?"

A Pinstripe bred to a Pastel, both animals are fairly inexpensive now, but the Lemon Blast is still pricy.

2-Ghost ($1500) bred to Genetic Stripe ($8,00) is going to give you double hets. How much are the double hets going to go for, and does the fact that they are "only" Hets have anything to do with the price, vs. visual double homozygous morphs?

I guess my question is, is there a formula for pricing, does it stay the same, or differ for simple recessive vs. co doms. My question is about double het or co dom het simple recessive or double co dom.

Dave

Basic economics... supply and demand. You can ask any price you want for any morph or combination. However, if no one is interested in acquiring that morph or combination or if there is a lot of those morphs/combinations available and only a few people interested, then you have a buyers market and will see the price drop. Now you only have two choices...
1) sell at the lower price or...
2) keep them (and hope the market changes later or as future breeders)

I've seen some people use a per gram formula, but even this must be adjusted to the current market conditions. Bottom line... we are in a free market society. All pricing is subject to the market.

By the way... this is an economic rule. There is, however, an exception to every rule!
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Larry Walker

WebSite

..........noone buys balls anyways.,......and if they want them, they will just want to trade for them anyways at a stupid price......balls don't sell......so there is no price for them.........

right..........?

market -dead

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the bottom not only fell out of this market......
it sucked the top down with it......
.........screached to a stop

jyohe is a STRANGE little man ain't he lol .Can you tell me jyohe if the market is DEAD and NO one is bying ball python morphs then why do I and MOST people I know of sell out EVERY year???.
I have read many posts from you and MOST are all the same.Very negative about the ball market.I just think things have evened out in price thats all.

Anyone feel the same way or is it just me lol.

No disrespect intended jyohe.Just my 2 cents
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Kelvin,J,Tourangeau

www.PastelDreamMorphs.com
Underconstruction

I think there are alot of trades, but I also think some morphs, especially the lower priced ones, do sell for cash. I also think the attitude of the seller plays a part in their own success....I could elaborate, but I do not think that is necessary.

It's no wonder you have a hard time selling snakes. You have the worst attitude when it comes to market conditions. Why would anyone want to buy into an investment you have no success or faith in? I love your slogan at the bottom of your comments. Do us all a favor and find something else to do with your time and money.

If I'm not mistaken, he got out of balls and then for some reason got back in after a very short period. I guess he is mad at himself because he got back in. I don't know for sure but it does get annoying having some chicken little running around saying the sky is falling all the time.

I never got out of balls........been doing it beofore the morphs were found in the termite mounds........

.......sky isn't falling......it fell.......that's what I heard.....and in both ears.........they just didn't tell you all.......

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don't look at my posts........K people....LOL.........?
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.........and they are all full of.. it.......

If you bought 100 Balls all at once, and spent big money on them, instead of a little cash and alot of trade, that is your fault. The only people that are crying about the market are the people who NEED to make money sales every month to pay bills, and those who way over spent, and spent money they did not have, borrowed from parents, put on CC, and now have to pay cash to pay off those bills.

Those of us who spent tax money we had to spend, back "real job" paychecks, and who started small and worked their way up are doing fine. Sure, I wish my adult Het Axanthics would have sold for $2800, but they are my snakes, they were not purchased on a CC, were not purchased from money my parents loaned me, they were purchased with money I could lose. If you cannot afford to lose it, do not spend it on Balls.

Yeah, there is some shed in with that $125 female that laid 11 good eggs. I traded off some of her offspring this year, from a $125 female, for over $40K. Damn this hobby bites, no fun at all...

I think the Ball market is evolving, smaller, higher end collections that concentrate on a few morphs might be the wave of the future, instead of a collection that has one or two of every morph you could get your hands on. If the Ball prices dropping are scaring you, then YOU did something wrong...overspent, cc payments, etc. I am still having fun!

Dave

maybe I just like shaking all you people up?..

$125 ball worth $125.....burgundy hypo......made up name and fools to trade for them for $40K?.......I know.my opinion.......they are stupid not you...so don't get mad at me..laugh at them......

I never borrowed any money........

never used a credit card and they are at $0 debt at the momment I think....

I never said 100 balls......

every ball I bought paid for itseld already except one and he will this year probably......even though they dropped to $800 this year and $400 and less by next year.......(spider...ok ?...and I got him cheaper than people said I would ..)

I could actually give away everything right now and have lost only a little..........*(but I'd rather have that check for $50K that's being sent to me this week..hahahaha).....

........anyways........

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.........and they are all full of.. it.......

If it was a Burgundy Hypo, wouldn't it be simple recessive? We have proven it Dom two years in a row.

don't know , don't care....looks almost normal......why bother ?
.......never see burgundy around anyways......

....I finally noticed you are in Cali.......people there overpay for everything anyways......homes and all.......here a $200G home sells for $450 out there and up.......wonder why?.....the sun shines here too.......?......

.......anyways........

........it's still early out there.....why you in here?.........go walk your dog for awhile.............

........so.....my balls and all are fed, rodents cleaned and fed....( 7 hours today )......dog and I goin' to bed.....tired of this.....and yes I have a "real" job and 3 am comes early.......

how old is Dave anyways???........

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.........and they are all full of.. it.......

I am in the San Diego area, and it feels good to have over $200K in equity, so what is your point about housing here? I bought 4 years ago for $250, got as high as $550 last year, worth about $475 or so now. I have a real job too, again, what is your point, that Californians overpay for everything? The funny thing is all my big sales and trades have been in AZ, NY, LA, and MA. I really have not done much business in California at all, probably because I have not done a show yet. I will be at Anahiem this coming year if you want to stop bye and see all my normals

There are people that are realistic and see the glass half full, people that are realistic and see the glass as half empty, and then just people who are downers. Honestly, it sounds like you got into Balls as one of the band wagoners, trying to make a ton of cash, and it did not go so well. I could be wrong, but that is the vibe you give off, that is my perception of you. I am 38 years old, not that it matters much. The dog already got walked, we just got back from an early dinner, sat outside by the fire and outdoor heaters, gotta love Cali.

Put my YB male with a nice normal female today, and my Ghost male with a Het Ghost female, think it is time. Hoping for a good year this year, hoping for 10-15 clutches. The Ember male should go this year, so I am hoping to produce Hypo Embers.

Bottom line for me, people may think I post the same pics too much, talk about the Ember and Sulfurs too much, name a morph before I prove out a super, but hey, you do not hear any people who purchased from me, or traded with me, saying I ripped them off, and that is all that matters to me.

And just for you, this pic pretty much shows the Pastel x Sulfur clutch, the Sulfur female is the one you think is a Burgundy. The three Pastels are all crosses, I kept one, and he is amazing! I do not see any Burgundy's, but the Dom, possibly Co Dom morphs are the two on the far left and far right. Are they stunning, nope! Never said they were, but they make amazing crosses, see Mojave pic, and they might make a cool super. Think what you want, but from a $125 Pet Store female, I am pretty pleased with the outcome. The last pic is a Pastel female I produced from the same father as the Pastel Sulfur, I think the difference is pretty drastic. The Mojave pic is from 05, showing a Mojave and a Mojave Sulfur, again, I think the cross looks pretty nice.

sticks foot in mouth about some of what i said bout some of ur projects

the sulfer mojave is niiceeeee

The First pic is a close up of the two Mojave siblings, one is a Sulfur Mojave, one is a Mojave. The Sufur Mojave has a maroon tint to her. The pic with three snakes in it is a Sulfur morph, on the far left, the Sulfur Mojave female from 05 in the center, and the newest 06 Sulfur Mojave on the right. Yes, he does look that cool, almost a Caramel look to him. From the time they hatch, the Sulfur morph and of course the Sulfur Mojaves lighten up considerably. A newly hatched Sulfur Mojave and one that is 6 months old will look totally different.

Dave

I figured it all out! "dog and I are going to bed." You just need a good woman!

You can keep whining every chance you get but the fact is that you do way more to hurt this business then to help. If you can't see that, then you are truly an idiot. Oh ya, give Ralph his period key back.......Please?

I expect the check this week........I'll suppky the big truck......Ok?..........make it out for like $50,000......no sweat......I tried to quit before and after 3 years gave up and reinvested and boutght like another 100 snakes....and went back to producing 700 eggs a year or so........

above it says most breeders sell out every year......well I sold maybe 4 this year for $20 ,$30 and traded off 3 for 2 (around $2G deal off)......

yesterday I was at Hamburg show....I gave away a genetic black backed male .98...about 8 pounds or more....$0....sold 0 balls.......saw 0 balls sold......except for the junk import stuff for what $20?.....saw tens of thousands in balls setting around.......pastels at $175 don't sell.......het albinos at $250 don't sell.......breedable girl het albinos at $400 each don't sell..I saw stuff at alot of tables setting......

sells?...crickets,baby illegal turtles,rodents to an extent but there are twice the sellers that there needs to be for them also....so each one makes half what they should.......

it was a herd of idiots doing the round and round walk ,,just like all shows I see........

so.......I just speak out loud....noone needs to listen....I am not negative.,...I am positive.,...

positive the market sucks........it was the opinion of all but 2 people...and one of them was just lying to look good.....

......so........send the check........I miss fishing alot........

Thanxx........

aaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
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.........and they are all full of.. it.......

Again, maybe it is YOU. Maybe people do not want to deal with YOU. I did not have a block buster year, but I did actually sell Mojaves and Pastels for cash....maybe not as much as I would have liked, but oh well. Maybe people see the KS forum and decide they would rather buy from someone who loves Ball Pythons, and is not just in it for the money, and not going to bash the hobby every chance they get. YOU got BACK IN, whose fault is that, sounds like sour grapes.

Dave

I am still buying Ball morphs.
I have spent thousands this year and far from done.
But in order for you to do these trades don't you need to buy some ball morphs to do this???
So why talk down on something you know nothing about
just my opinion Jyohe.

I know nothing about?.......funny......how old are you anyways kid?.......
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i want to say that there have been a few times before i joined another forum, that only a few people would give me any advice here..
jy was one of the people, the advice he gave me was very good advice to.

and he has given me corn snake advice, which was very good advice to.....

He talked about the drop of certain morphs before it actually happened. I used to think he was a bit harsh but he is just being realistic. Like you said Emberball, if you can't afford to lose the money, don't buy! That is the main point to me.
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In Loving Memory of the best Brother God gave me
Sgt. Arnold DuPlantier II
(Army National Guard, Charlie Rock Co.)
06/03/1979-06/22/2005
Support Our Troops

I'm sure JY is a great guy, and knows the business very well. I just don't see anyone buying from someone that has nothing but negative things to say about the business. Who buys these high dollar morphs anyway.........people that love snakes and want to get into the BUSINESS.....a business that does have great potential. I'm sure everyones had better years. I don't think the market has died ............it just leveled off. There are still plenty of people out there looking to get into the market. Like stated in a previous post don't spend money you don't have and more importantly be passionate about what you do! Ok...I'm done.

P.S. You have to take what the market gives you.

LOL.......Thanxx.......we know that....

(I just like shaking the trees and watching what falls out....)

....fact.at shows.....people don't ask about balls..or much at that fact......they buy crap only.....

market value and suplly don't matter......they don't ask at all.....and I'd sell for half value usually......

.......people buy wild crap and unproven junk......alot.....

.have fun.........

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Ok...here it goes. SO im fairly new to posting, but a religious follower for over a year....I understand everyones concerns about JY...But lets all agree to ignore his petty comments ok? I cant speak for everyone but I could def. do without his attitude...just a little bit of info for you JY....Do you really think a car salesman would take a potential buyer out on his lot to a nice car and go on to explain how crappy it is? And how much it will drop in value!? NO WONDER YOUR NOT SELLING MUCH....DUH This isnt meant to bash you but seriously? What did you expect? And yes because im sure your going to ask I might as well enlighten you all.......I am 18 years old and this is my first year breeding Ball pythons. Not trying to impress anyone, Im impressing myself But anyway as a fairly new player in the Ball game (4 years) I resent your attitude and discouragement.....Take your Drama to the Corn Snake Forum...(not that theres anything wrong w corns lol) Im going to continue to buy, keep, raise, breed, and sell ball pythons for as long as my body allows me to keep up with the work, And do you know why? BECAUSE ITS A PASSION NOT A GET-RICH-QUICK SCHEME OR AN ESSENTIAL INCOME TO PAY BILLS......If ball pythons were being sold for $5000 each and turn around to sell in one year for $1......Id buy them all...call me a fool but at least im passionate! Maybe you should be a car salesman...everyone need a car and judging buy you attitude you seem to fit the profile.
Just a guess but who thinks JY is a raging P.E.T.A member in disguise? Sorry for the long post and the not-so-friendly words But i just had to set this straight.....lets not all loose touch with the fact that this is a hobby and a passion before a business...Ok? thanks for hearing me out...and yes this is all from a stupid run of the mill doesnt-know-jack 18 year old KID....what a joke

I bought a bunch of poss het fem ghosts from Jyohe, and they are great animals..So thanks for them, a few should breed this season Also if we sold anything at Hamburg ..lol.. I would have bought a butterscotch male from you , not that i need another male but your ghosts are too die for, amazing animals. In my opinion you and Scott have the 2 nicest lines . There are certain people i dont buy from in the trade for reasons i will not explain here. But Jyohe is not one of them. He knows the trade and not many people want to hear what is going on or what has transpired, but i guess it is what it is. I bought a male pastel at the show...lol... why? i have no idea i thought he was beautiful and just had to have him...I have way too many adult males, not to mention males that have pastel mixed in them, i really dont need an 06 baby, but i couldnt resist... I guess when it comes down to it people will buy for quality so why not try and make the best example of a morph as possible, i know that is what we are doing ... I love the trade, at times yes i have my harsh opinions but all in all i would keep balls if they were worth $10 ea for morphs.. i just love the snakes, i may not be able to afford 900 lol.. but i would definatley hold on to at least a few hundred of my favorites...
This trade is a disease... which there is no cure for .. once your hooked you mine as well convert that extra spare bed room into your new snake room b.c they quickly take over your house
Just my opinions..
And J I will buy a male Butterscoth from you sometime in the near future..like I said make the best example you can, and you have some great examples
Kim and Matt
N.A.R.C

.......noone actually gets the point.......period.....

people are stupid and actually read this crap.......

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that pastel male is cute and if he holds yellow he will be very nice with all the blushed stiping........

I traded 3 snakes for 2 this year.....and they too were males I got........like we need more males?...guess I did.......I got a yellowbelly and a pastel het ghost......both like 4 foot.......pastel already making good with pastel poss het green ghost girl....yellowbelly must have come in from out west some where..he hides underneath the girls ?? .....what the hey>???

LOL..........that show sucked........bigtime......as did the last one I hear.......maybe February will bring out some little teenagers that want to start breeding ?......

this one the 12 year old kid got a hook and a 3 foot and a 5 foot western diamondback......?....hope it was his first snake.....his momma is so smart for buying them with him......DUH......

.........good luck......see you soon......sell alot of het albinos.........
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..................JY
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as for the others..................I used the dots a long time ago............and I have a woman.........
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.......king cobras .......the real cure for overproduction?.
................hurry up and buy a house Chad........LOL

Glad to hear you have a good woman, I thought lack of a good woman was the reason for your "behavior," but I guess not. Getting up for work at 3am, that is my new reasoning for your attitude, is that it? I used to work at Costco, and had to be at work around 3-4am, been about 10 yrs ago, but man, that was tough! Could tend to make a person testy and cranky............

One thing that still bugs me, everyone that said "Your morphs are just normals," please post a pic of one of your normals that looks like this!