Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click here for Dragon Serpents
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
Click here to visit Classifieds

Uromastyx Compatibility?

reptileforest Dec 03, 2006 10:53 AM

Hi,

I am new to desert lizards, but would like to start a 48 by 18 by 30 tall desert tank. I would prefer to keep different types of lizards in it. I am really into Uromastyx and would like to find out what type of lizards I can combine them with? I heard you cant combine them with bearded dragons. How about chuckwallas, horned lizards, frilled lizards, leopard geckos etc? I am looking to house 2 or 3 lizards in my tank. What do you guys recommend?

Also I know Uromastyx dig up and chew up plants. Any type of live plant I can keep in my tank with them? I want my vivarium to look natural. Also thinking of stratifying the back with rocks to give them more vertical space since my tank is 30 tall. Just dont want to waste so much space.

Any suggestions and comments would be helpful.

Thank you

Replies (18)

John-C Dec 03, 2006 01:35 PM

If you plan on housing at least one uromastyx in a tank
with the floor space of only 48" x 18", I see no problem.
If you eventually plan on adding a mate in the future, that
floor space is somewhat questionable at best.

All three you mentioned are basically ground dwellers
with low climbing so the upper half of your tank would
simply be a waste. Do you know that most UVB lamp
manufactures recommend that their fluorescent UVB
lamps should not be more than 12" from where the
lizard(s) will spend most of their waking hours?

Why would you want to house various distant species
like uros, horned and beardeds? Mixing species and
some sub species does not sit well with most keepers.
Too many individual/different requirements for each
species would only cause stress, aggression, lack of
room for each to claim their own space (territory) etc.
You will end up with a 'survival of the fittest' scenario.
Uros are predominantly herbivores while horned and
bd's are more insectivores. Temps, cage setups, photo
periods, substrates, humidities, deseases ... and the list
goes on ... will all be working against the poor animal
which YOU decide to house together.

If you think of buying/building a cage with a 48" x 48"
floor space, my answer would remain the same.

John

reptileforest Dec 03, 2006 02:02 PM

Thanks for the info,

How about plants? any live plants safe for uromastyx?
cacti with no thorns or something? I would like to add some life to the cage besides wood and rock.

PS: so you are saying Uromastyx wont use the height in my tank? Wont climb stacked rock or wood? I have to stack it in order for them to get close to the heat and lights which i plan to keep at least 10 inches away from the reptile. my tank is tall....

Let me know

kerub Dec 03, 2006 03:05 PM

The uros will definitely climb, and climb and climb and climb. They're extremely active, but they also like to dig as well, so it's good to have more ground space than height. I have an artificial background on my tank, which I now almost regret putting in except that it looks so good. My pair climbs it constantly, scaling the background straight to the top in a split second, so I have to be careful about lamp placement and making sure the lid is secured-because they WILL push it open if they get half a chance.
There are probably plants that are safe from the standpoint that they won't hurt the uro, but the uro will most likely destroy the plants. either from trampling them underfoot or turning them into a snack- a plant will not last long in a uro tank.

John-C Dec 04, 2006 12:24 PM

Because uros are so heavy bodied, robust and
not the best of climbers, you'd be surprised
as to just how many uros (especially) would
come in with severe damage to their hind legs,
backs and necks because they lost their grip
and unlike a cat, were unable to land on their
feet from a mere 2' drop onto a rock or piece
of cage furniture. Most were un curable due to
severe spinal damage while others simply
perished from the pain and/or stress.

John

esoteric Dec 04, 2006 04:52 PM

>>Because uros are so heavy bodied, robust and
>>not the best of climbers, you'd be surprised
>>as to just how many uros (especially) would
>>come in with severe damage to their hind legs,
>>backs and necks because they lost their grip
>>and unlike a cat, were unable to land on their
>>feet from a mere 2' drop onto a rock or piece
>>of cage furniture. Most were un curable due to
>>severe spinal damage while others simply
>>perished from the pain and/or stress.
>>
>>John

This is highly dependant on the Uro species. My macfads, ornates, benti, and ocellata all make significant use of vertical surfaces and high spaces when available. The geyri and hardwickii don't seem to really notice there's much going on above them. Many of the smaller species are highly arboreal and are built in significantly different proportions than the terrestrial varieties as well as having more substantial climbing adaptations like hand size and claw shape. That said, most of the common/available species are the larger terrestrial species- mali, geyri, egyptian, etc.
A single pair of small Uros should get along quite nicely in that environment- ocellata or macfadyeni, I don't see ornate being a problem either. These are all higher price species and not necessarily listed as "beginner" animals either. Ocellata are highly terratorial and even macfadyeni have been touchy at times.
-----
uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian), hardwickii (Indian),
macfadyeni (Somalian), ocellata (Sudanese), ornata (Ornate), benti pseudophilbyi

yesimhavingfun Dec 04, 2006 09:51 PM

"Many of the smaller species are highly arboreal and are built in significantly different proportions than the terrestrial varieties as well as having more substantial climbing adaptations like hand size and claw shape"

This is new a new one !! eso, don't you think it is a bit much to call them highly arboreal?!? I would love to see ANY kind of information stating that a uromastyx is arboreal, or even that they have adaptations for climbing like you claim. I am not saying that uros don't climb because mine will climb up anything in the cage. I would say it is a risk having so much height in the cage b/c of the risks of a bad fall like John said.

Nat

esoteric Dec 05, 2006 12:41 PM

>>This is new a new one !! eso, don't you think it is a bit much to call them highly arboreal?!? I would love to see ANY kind of information stating that a uromastyx is arboreal, or even that they have adaptations for climbing like you claim. I am not saying that uros don't climb because mine will climb up anything in the cage. I would say it is a risk having so much height in the cage b/c of the risks of a bad fall like John said.
>>
>>Nat

Pickup the big Uro book that was translated from German this past year (Wilms?). In there you'll see Uros (Ornates?) feeding on flowers up in (acacia?) trees. It's hard to suggest that there aren't species adapted for climbing. If you pickup a variety of species and really take a look at them you'll find they're built quite differently than the others.
Beyond structure, they tend to behave differently (in captivity) as well. The species I've said have arboreal adaptations are also generally jumpers. The way the different animals respond to capture (in hand) is different. Tail usage is different with these species tending to articulate/hold on/brace more; in contrast here, hardwickii have very articulated/clingy tails but don't show a lot of interest in climbing.

If you're not comfortable with that much height then don't make it all accessible to the animal. What I was getting at was that the footprint of that cage might be inappropriate for one or two large animals, but other smaller species would have no problem at all in there. My cages are all
-----
uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian), hardwickii (Indian),
macfadyeni (Somalian), ocellata (Sudanese), ornata (Ornate), benti pseudophilbyi

yesimhavingfun Dec 05, 2006 02:28 PM

I still must disagree to some extent. I see no evidence leading me to conclude that there are morphological differences other than shear size that could benefit one being arboreal. I have seen the pictures of the ornates in the acacia trees and know that some species prefer rocky out crops to burrows; correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see these species as being arboreal. Behaviorally, some may be more inclined to climb but only because their food source is primarily in the trees. The jumping behavior, I feel is more of an adaptation to living on rocky out crops than to being arboreal. Just my thought,

Nat

esoteric Dec 05, 2006 02:36 PM

...and what species do you have experience with?
-----
uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian), hardwickii (Indian),
macfadyeni (Somalian), ocellata (Sudanese), ornata (Ornate), benti pseudophilbyi

kerub Dec 05, 2006 02:53 PM

I can say that I have personal experience with U. geryi, and they climb a LOT. My two climb anything and everything. I made a 'great stuff' background for my tank, and they adore it. If they're not digging, they're scaling the wall. Rarely do they fall off, they've become masters at climbing both up and down, and while it's very heavily textured and perfect for climbing, it is a straight vertical surface. At times they even climb to a spot where they're comfortable and fall asleep, hanging on with their claws dug into the wall. I'll have to post a picture if I can get one soon, because it makes me laugh a little. Another behavior that I've noticed is jumping- they'll perch themselves on a rock or log in the tank and jump to the back wall, after which they promptly climb directly to the top.

uri_grama Dec 05, 2006 07:39 PM

Kerub what is "great stuff" for background? sounds like something I would be interested in making for my tank. Did I understand that right? My Ornate baby loves to climb everything. He even finds a way to hang on the temp. probe and suction cup that holds it. He jumps from his branch to get to it. I think he would love a background to climb. Info please??
-----
Grama Deb

kerub Dec 05, 2006 09:25 PM

Great stuff is basically expanding foam insulation. It's been used primarily (in the pet hobby) for making bacgrounds for poison dart frogs, crested geckos, etc. It's great because it looks really cool, and it provides (for climbing animals) vertical space. I originally made the bacground because I wanted to put plants in my tank, which you would do by cutting a hole in the bacground and siliconing the plant's pot in place. Lucky for me I tested the uros in the tank BEFORE adding the plants and found out that it wouldn't work because they climb so much.
To make it, you buy the 'great stuff' foam, it comes in an aerosol type can at home depot or lowes. One can is about $7. For my 75 gallon tank, I used about one and two thirds of a can. You'll also need sand. I used a mixture of playsand and decomposed granite, which I also got at home depot, because it gives it a more rocky appearance. ( Poison dart frog people use coco fiber for it, and it turns out looking sort of tree bark-like.) If you don't mix the sand it sorta looks like playsand on elmers glue. Lay the tank or enclosure on it's back on a level surface and spray the foam on. You can't really spread it after spraying, so I just went in a pattern, making row after row of spray all the way down the length of the tank until it was all covered. You have to finish this step fairly quicly because it starts to set up rather fast. Next, you take the sand mixture, I used a dog bowl, and pour it over the great stuff. Make sure you cover every inch of it. Now you sit and wait. The foam will start to expand, and at some points it will expand so much that it will push all of the sand off of that area, so you have to be ready to dump a little more sand on it. Once the foam is no longer active, you have to leave it to set up, I left mine for about 3 hours. Then, you set the tank or enclosure upright, so that all of the loose sand comes off, and voila! You can then go back with silicone and glue some sand over and bubbles that broke and left the foam bare, or any spots that just need touch ups. Let it off-gas for at least 48 hours. It cures in 8 but I like to be safe. Who knows how long the silicone takes to off gas anyhow. Then you decorate your tank as you like. Here's a pic of what it looks like in mine.

At first I was really worried they might dig into it and eat a piece of it, but it's been in with them for probably 6 months and put up to a lot of digging, scratching, and climbing. I've been pretty impressed and pleased with it. The big plus is that if it does become a problem it's fairly easy to remove, too. just pull off what you can by hand and scrape the rest down with a putty knife or similar tool. Probably would be difficult to remove from a wooden enclosure, though.

kerub Dec 05, 2006 09:27 PM

Ok the pics didn't work. Trying again.
Image

kerub Dec 05, 2006 09:30 PM


uri_grama Dec 07, 2006 08:13 PM

Kerub thanks so much for the info and instructions on great stuff foam. I will be saving and printing the info so when Scooter gets his new home in January I can make a background for him. I love yours and can't wait to try it out. Thanks again.
-----
Grama Deb

yesimhavingfun Dec 05, 2006 05:02 PM

If your referring to Uros, my experience is with U. geyri, U. macfadyeni, U. d. maliensis.

Arredondo Dec 05, 2006 07:45 PM

Interesting subject... I was "arboreal" when I was a kid. And my kat Claymore, I suppose, is also "arboreal". He'll chase a lizard up a tree.
When I think of arboreal, tree snakes come to mind, as do green iguanas, sloths, squirrels, etc. I'm having difficulty thinking of any Uros being considered true arboreals even though they'll climb for a snack. I'd give the arboreal status to those critters that inhabit the heights on a near permanent basis.

Arredondo Dec 03, 2006 05:36 PM

Your first sentence should define the answer. You say you're "new to desert reptiles." But, already, you want to combine species. This subject reappears every couple months on the forum & the continued consensus is not to do it.
My advice is to not create an experiment with a number of lizards that are more than likely just going to stress & die for your entertainment.
Keep them seperate, keep things simple. Even then, you'll have more than enough husbandry challenges. Why insist on more??

Site Tools