Reptile & Amphibian Forums

is it possible to breed easterns with tri colors of same length and has anyone done so and have pics thanks in advance

It is very possible. They are both the same genus and species (Lampropeltis triangulum) so in theory should produce viable offspring. They are different sub species (eastern - triangulum and peublan - campbelli).

Never seen one though. Personally, I'm not much into unnatural integrades.

Dave

DNS Reptiles

In my opinion, I would not even attempt to do that. The offspring would be mutts and they probably would not be looking like either of the parents and quite unattractive.
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Genesis 1:1

Very few people work with easterns compared to Pueblans, Hondurans, Nelsons, etc. Most serious breeders frown on hybrids and unnatural intergrades - the offspring of these pairings are often ugly. Most milk snake breeders like to selectively breed "pure" snakes to refine specific traits, rather than make a genetic mess.

Tim

Third Eye

anypics of this or is it just a theory ?

It's not just theory because they are the same species. If you can breed a king with a corn aka. "jungle corn" then it's do able.
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Steve W.

have people done this before and is there pics and is it because people have trouble raising eastern milks or is it the negative attiude towards hybrids and unnatural intergrades even though it doesnt sound as bad crossing an eastern milk with a pueblan then crossing a corn and a king. and has there ever been crossings between scarlet kings and easterns to see if offspring are like a coastal plains? the whole reason i asked about the pueblans is i have a bunch of eastern milks hatched from a wild caught female and i have gotten two on pinks and they are good eaters and in future would like to breed them with another eastern to keep lines pure or try something new to get interesting cross pueblan x eastern i thought about the eastern and scarlet and size difference and thought of something similar in size and color and came up with the pueblan
sorry about me rambling on and on just very interested in milksnakes and other herps

thanx in advance Alex

pics if known

First off my answer was to your question about it being theory. And the answer was that it could be done. Has anyone done it? Who knows but it's not something most people would try being we like to keep the strains pure and selective breed certain animals to improve their appearance. If you have enough easterns to work with and breed that would be the best thing to do. If not just pair up what you don't have mates for and keep it pure.
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Steve W.

Although that breeding combination is possible, it certainly doesn't mean that it will happen by a long shot,it means just that it is "POSSIBLE". No guarantee that even species, and ssp. that are the same will actually mate and have viable eggs. Crossing different types of snakes just for the sake of doing it goes against my grain anyway...........this latest craze to try and "mix-and-match" any snake that is available is just rediculous to me.......Everybody and their brother wants to be "Dr. Frankenstein" to see what they can come up with just to see if they can make a few bucks. It's not that most of us "purists" hate the actual snake that is produced, it's that we hate what happens to the snakes BECAUSE of all this nonsense, and what can, and will happen to the snakes in the wild because of idiots that let their "mixed-up" "cross-hybridized","double-mutated " "intergraded" animals loose. Be it by accident, or on purpose, this will eventually leave it's mark in nature, just give it a little time..........I'm certainly not trying to act like I'm "Mr. Greenpeace" or anything, just trying to express a view to a few people that read this, that sometime in the future, this practice of mixing "anything & everything" isn't a great idea in the long run....................okay, I'm done (LOL)

I honestly can't add anything to this post other than saying, right on!

HAS ANYONE OUT THERE CROSSED AN EASTERN WITH A SCARLETKING??????....IF SO ARE THERE PICTURES????

Right-on "tspuckler", my view exactly,..........just because you could weld a "Volkswagon",a "Ferarri",a "Station wagon", and a "Jaguar" together to make a "different" kind of car, doesn't mean you should.

with the pueblan in that pic! are ya really gonna talk about ugly? ahahahaha j/k,,,,,,,thomas

there is such negetive replies especially with the argument that products of such breedings could somehow "get out" into wild pops. and taint/ruin them, there is nothing further from the truth! folks who beleive such nonsense have ZERO understanding of nature and how tough it is. these snakes are DEAD to nature when we place them in a box as is all offspring produced plain and simple.
but to answer your question about cambelliXtriangulum i dont think its been done. i do beleive it can be done and i beleive it could produce some very nice looking snakes go for it! and people who beleive that to do that is an ABOMINATION need to get a grip, this is our hobby(for some job,livelyhood) but to think what we do(captive breeding)even as a collective could/would have an impact on the whole,just dont quite grasp the natural world.
,,,,,,,,,thomas

thomas davis thanks for backing me up i didnt mean to be the bad guy in this and im glad people think the way i think and im not out to destroy native bloodlines and release intergrades to cause mass hysteria im just doin my hobby and i didnt say i would even do it just a thought

Dead to nature when in a box but not dead to nature when released out into the wild. We are not the ones who need to get a grip as you say.
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Steve W.

do you have any idea how many things WILL kill a released captive born and bred snake?,amoeba's,virus's,pathogens,predation,etc,etc. cbb are WEAK moreso with hybrids i would beleive(maybe not) but there are just to many factors that would take cbb out even if it did miracolously find a mate and successfully breed nature would weed it out. so yes i beleive snakes are DEAD to nature when put in a box and ones that were born in boxes imho just dont have a chance in the wild intentionally released or otherwise and certainly couldnt/wouldnt taint/destroy,effect wild pops in anyway other than perhaps introducing cbb cooties to them which is why NO cbb snake should ever be released. but crossing cbb snakes is fine in my eyes but should always be honestly represented if they are to be sold/brought into the hobby.
,,,,,,,thomas

LOL. You are kidding right? Nature doesn't seem to be doing too good of a job weeding out all the introduced species in florida anytime soon. Hybrid or pure strains "can" survive if released. If you think that a non-native or hybrid snake released can't upset the balance of nature because it will not survive you are wrong. All it takes is the right animal in the right habitat and they will thrive. A little history lesson for ya. Boas, pythons, iguana's and monkeys are introduced species in florida. lol
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Steve W.

feral species and manmade hybrids are two different things. certainly feral sp. can and do establish themselves and do reek havoc. but to think manmade crosses(cornXkingXmilk,etc) can destroy or even hurt wild lines is rediculous they will not survive for several several reasons. when a milkXcorn,etc are successfully bred they are a weak snake compared to either wild parent species and as all colubrids that have been out of the wild(captive lines 5 generations or more) they become immune comprimised especially to WILD cooties!,not to mention not knowing how to act,hunt,survive the odds of that snake surviving in the wild, much less breeding is slim very slim imho again im not talking about established wild dominant introduced feral species im talking about manmade colubrids big differance,would you not agree? the guy that started this thread was just asking about cambelliXtriangulum and to argue the reason for not doing it is it will eventually destroy either parent ssp. is simply ludacris imho i say go for it but if you ever sell,give away any babies be honest in the representation of the parent ssp. for folks in the hobby wanting to keep captive ssp.lines as true to their wild counterparts as possible,,,,,,thomas

I personally don't care who crosses what but to say that a cross/hybrid can't survive in the wild is rediculous. I'd be willing to bet that if say an alterna x mexicana was released into the wild in west texas it would be able to survive and breed with the pure alterna out there. To say that it won't is absurd.
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Steve W.

the breeder is going to reperesent the animals correctly.Its more about what happens after the person that gets hold of a couple gets tired of them.If they look one way or another they may be sold/givin away as such and who's to know.

The breeder would still be to blame for creating such garbage.If you don't have a big cobra to feed lets not take the chance.

Duckbutter

into a pet store, or a reptile show in the future to buy a snake, and look at the label that would normally have the species of snake on it, and it is just marked....."DON'T KNOW". This is what will be SAD!!!!. There wouldn't be any harm in doing this under normal circumstances, but this practice has gotten way out of control with three and five different types of snakes rolled into one..........What I stated earlier wasn't meant as a personal attack, just a different view for the people to think about.........so your comment about me knowing "ZERO" about nature wasn't necessary.........People that can see the "ENTIRE PAINTING", rather than the individual dots that make-up the painting I think agree with this. There will always be different views on this subject, so it's one of those "back-and-forth things" that there's never really and end to, so I'll just leave it at that...................

ok then,,,,,,,,,,thomas

Yes it's likely a cross between a pueblan and an eastern milksnake could be done quite easily. I can not imagine an outcome however that would make it worth the effort. The offspring would not be attractive enough to interest those who like such crosses and purist DEFINATEL wouldn’t want them. Before you breed anything you need to first think about your ability to move the offspring responsibly. This applies to even "pure" snakes.

about it even applying to captives.

my two cents on the hybrid sidetrack above-captives released in the wild-that's your two reasons right there thomas,you named them yourself....
1)'cbb cooties' as you call them(i would think much more of a threat to local wild populations than the amel.cornsnake,etc. itself that is their host/carrier)....and

2)'should always be honestly represented'-yeah right,enough said.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld