Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So i have had a troubled feeder since my corns all hatched out in september. So today i fed him to my cal king. Enjoy!!!

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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

Yeah...this is something to really " enjoy ".
Thanks for showing a corn, which appears to have decent body weight and not showing skin folds like a corn that has been a problem feeder, fed to a king just to build ones' ego. Really mature there friend.

I am just curious and please, be honest, how long did you allow that corn to not feed before you decided to act upon this ridiculous act?
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Genesis 1:1

Thats kind of just sad, although the feeding of other snakes that are bad feeders is'nt a big deal, the death of a captive animal is nothing to be enjoyed. Especially when the corn looks to be of good wieght and has good strength to fight back, I just feel sad that you also did'nt kill the corn before feeding it off.

The corn looks pretty decent to me also.
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Jason

That corn was born sept 8 and has not had 1 single meal since. I have tried constant tease feedings and force feedings to no avail. Also the snake seemed to have a kinked spine in the last week or so which i had not noticed before.
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

I don't know about others, but I have some non feeders that were hatched in JUNE, and I am not giving up on them. Did you ever try any of the tricks to get non feeders to eat, besides tease feeding? There are so many more tricks.

I noticed your post of this in the corn forum got deleted.

In my opinion, if you can not take the time to care for non feeders or find someone else that can, you should not be breeding.

I am not trying to be judgemental or rude, it is just my opinion.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Time flies when you can't remember what you did yesterday!"

Too Many Snakes to count or List!

Well, his weight sure seemed fine, as others have noted as well. If that corn had not eaten perhaps by seven weeks or so, he would have been a bag of skin and bones. In other words, myself and others find it very hard to believe that he was a problem feeder, depicted by the pics you presented, and that snake's weight was the way it was since you claim he was born Sept. 8., almost 3 MONTHS LATER!

Corns can be very problematic in feeding, but seriously, if you really cared about the animal at all, or if you claim to be an animal lover in any sense, you would have at least euthanized the poor animal first before you would have fed him to your king. I am really sure he appreciated this.

Also, you could have just given him way to someone who may have wanted to help trying to get the corn started. Herp friends tend to be helpful in this area.

Real impressive.
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Genesis 1:1

In the nicest way possible, please euthanize the animal first and please don't post it here, I have occasionally fed snake to snake, but I don't post it as most here don't condone it. It is a free country, but be reminded that you will get negative feedback from such actions, as it is their right to respond to what you post. On the other hand, peeps, we should keep the name calling to ourselves, as that doesn't solve anything. We want to persuade them and teach them, not drive them away. This guy is somebodies son. Chastize, perhaps, insult, I don't think you will change anyone's mind with that.
Todd Hughes

I agree.
It is senseless to feed a healthy snake to another snake, but it isn't any more cruel than feeding a healthy mouse to a snake, or feeding a lizard to a snake.

However, I don't buy that the motivation for the feeding was a problem cornsnake. That corn snake looked healthy. I am more likely to believe it was done as an entertaining way to get rid of a corn snake that wasn't selling.

Even with mice though, using f/t prey if you are able is better for so many reasons.

My understanding is that a freezer is an acceptable way to euthanize a reptile with very little suffering to the reptile.
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3.3.5 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I agree that name calling is not the way to go, but most people on these forums don't usually get out of hand

I have heard that freezing forms crystals in their body before they die and can be painful. A vet mentioned putting the animal in the fridge to cool it down (like a hybernation of sorts), then freeze it. Just what I heard
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Time flies when you can't remember what you did yesterday!"

Too Many Snakes to count or List!

Posted by: antelope at Mon Dec 4 00:04:59 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

In the nicest way possible, please euthanize the animal first and please don't post it here, I have occasionally fed snake to snake, but I don't post it as most here don't condone it. It is a free country, but be reminded that you will get negative feedback from such actions, as it is their right to respond to what you post. On the other hand, peeps, we should keep the name calling to ourselves, as that doesn't solve anything. We want to persuade them and teach them, not drive them away. This guy is somebodies son. Chastize, perhaps, insult, I don't think you will change anyone's mind with that.
Todd Hughes

Very well put Todd.

BTW I am a bit surprised by everyones overeaction here.. I mean snakes eat snakes. Thats a fact of their lives. People post snakes eating live HEALTHY mice on here all the time and people cheer. Some are tiny newborns with their eyes closed and calling for their mama. Why is it this offends and the mouse does not? Could it be because we are all prejudice against rodents like some people are against snakes? A snakes does not have the same feeling and intelligence than a mouse does. Now I ask how many of you fed a live mouse to a snake before?

I also have come up on snakes eating other snakes in the wild. DORs (roadkill) have them inside of their stomachs. I see people posting snakes eating other snakes in the wild on field collecting forums. Is this less offensive because the snakes are doing what is natural? IN THE WILD!! hmmmm.

Persoanlly I feel a mouse is more intelligent than a snakes. AT least in the way we can relate with feelings, fear, nerve endings ect.

.

I must admit the "enjoy" part was maybe questionable. But we don't know who sits behind the computer. We don't know if this person was trying to troll or if he just thought it was some nice shots. People say "enjoy" to pics they post all the time. This was really a knee jerk responce by most . The pics did not make me think anything bad at all. Matter of fact I thought it might have gotten one or two responses and that was it. I would have thought this person was not trlling or if he was then he gets a 2 out of a possible 10 for a troll attempt. Noty worth going there IMO.

Another thing is when peole here are saying the snake should have been ill to feed why is that? Because he is wasting $$? Or because the snake is suffering more than a rodent???

I have tried to kill rats in my younger days for food by using forceps to snap their necks (an acceptable way of ueuthanizing a few years ago) and the other rats would sense the kill and start on the attack or flee to save their lives. A rodent also knows the fear assciated wityh being eaten more than a snake. They are much more intelligent than a snake.

The pic of the snake with its mouth open illicited a lot of responses because "WE" as humans., associate whats going on and compare it to our most horrible nightmares.. A snake does not understand the fear of being swallowed because its not wired that way. Its instinct is to get away. It also is then suffocated in the belly of the other snake. I don't see this as an inhuman of killing for a snake. Do we really know if freezing a snake is that much better for its psyschy?

Another poiint is this is the kingsnake forum and not the corn forum. A king (*especially the eastern varieties) eat snakes as their first meal. Its fair to share this here. That is why we try to scent mice with water snakes or corn snakes. It is what they eat, period. Its only us who are desensitived to making our snakes eat rodents. How about raising a water snake farm or corn snakes for food? Nice clean parasite free ... I know people ho have success feeding birds to colubrids. Yes they raise them just for that purpose. Their growth rates are much better and the snakes are healthier becauae of the baby bird chow.. I think this practice of feeding birds will take over the mouse feeding for us larger scale breeders in the future.

This whole thread has been the most illogical one on this forum to date.

I can't read the original poster's intent through my monitor, so I'll take it at face value. It's a King doing what it does best: Eating whatever's put in front of it.

I'll have to agree with Bluerosy on this one. Kinda disturbing, but that's what they do.

Sure I like Corns, and no I don't like to see them die. But they are below Kings on the food chain. So are mice.

Oh well, until someone breeds a vegan strain, it's just a part of keeping snakes.
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
4.3.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Everglades Rat Snakes
1.0.0 Baird's Rat Snake
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
2.1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (1.1 River Road, 1.0 Non-Locale Specific)
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
0.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.0.0 Western Hognose
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.0 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

Well most things dislike being swallowed alive. I also do not think that freezing is the best way to kill rodents, CO2 I heard is fastest. But I do agree that it is what snakes do best but I mean It was that it did'nt look like it was unhealthy nor that the snake was being used to get the king to feed.

LOL! I like the vegan response!
Todd Hughes

....that's my top secret project!!
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
4.3.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Everglades Rat Snakes
1.0.0 Baird's Rat Snake
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
2.1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (1.1 River Road, 1.0 Non-Locale Specific)
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
0.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.0.0 Western Hognose
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.0 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

Rainer, I have never agreed with you more. I think the response to this guys post is outrageous. I don't know the guys motive to this post, but regardless, I think most people are just offended by this suffering corn snake, but yet they have no problem feeding their snakes frozen thawed mice. Do these people really think that the mouse was born frozen? Do these people think that a huge gas chamber that these mice are put into is humane? I think we should fear this type of response because this mentality could put this hobby in jeopardy. Thanks again Rainer for the logic in this chaos.

Jeff

How would the response to this be outrageous? To me, all the responses border on nothing but common sense.

We all saw a healthy corn suffering. That is it. Case closed. Why is that so hard to see?

Yes, the snake was suffering, and thank you for posting that. That right there wraps up the whole point of most responses.

This type of response has nothing to do with putting this hobby in jeopardy. Come on!! LOL!

Co2 simply puts mice to sleep, so feeding defrosted mice to a snake can not even parallel.

Take care!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

I’m tired of talking about what is a Humane way to die. Whether we kill the prey first or the snake kills the prey—the prey is going to die. If you feel better about yourself by suffocating mice with co2 then go right ahead. I bet it is not as pleasant or as quick as you think. The bottom line is nature is not as humane as you would like to think. One question that I have for anyone that objects to this is do you guys ever feed live mice to your snakes or are you totally against this?

Jeff

I feed live but prekilled by the whacking method, some of my photos indicate a little overkill, but I want them out instantly, I don't do it primarily for the rodents benefit but for my captives. They are still warm and I don't have to mess with storage.
Todd Hughes

I actually don't feed live mice to my snakes because I buy them all frozen.
Yes, the prey is going to die, the natural prey that snakes feed upon, yes. Nature can be brutal.
The point of this whole thing is someone posts a pic of a snow corn he said had not eaten in 3 months, takes pics of the poor thing, and posts them for us to " enjoy."

Now, take a look at the pics again. The snow corn is at a really good weight, obviously the snake was supposedly on a 3 month hunger strike. Remember, others can cleary see the weight was fine.

What does this all mean? It means the person who took the pics had a snow corn that he wanted to see get eaten and he wanted to post pics of it. It is obvious that his story can be proven wrong by just taking a look at the pics. The point? It was selfish and cruel. Nothing more can be said.
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Genesis 1:1

Actually the advert from Chic-fil-A is "eat more chicken the cows will thank you for it".

Or how about. "BEEF! Its whats for dinner"

What about all the healthy cows and chickens who are fed diets to insure they grow as fast as possible to be taken to the slaughter house? Veal anyone??

Now a snake is not as healthy for a captive snake because of the possible parasites you can introduce. But that aside this poster has done nothing wrong. If he was trolling to get a reaction then I would have scored it a 2 out of a scale of 1-10. But as it seems this is either a classic troll job (cudos if it is) that should get an 11 in my book or just a guy who thought posting a pic was okay. People frequently post "enjoy" after a pic... Just imagine this poster did troll? SO WHAT! Its everyones responses that made this more than it is.. Imagine if he did troll and sitting back and laughing at the responses. Even if he did he has done nothing wrong . If he has done something morally or ethically wrong will someone please point out what that is?

Snakes are also not pets. AT least not in my definition. My daughter is 3 years old and carrys a stuffed platipus everywhere she goes. She loves her stuffed "baby". Even though her baby will never love her back, I am not going to argue with her because she has the mind of a 3 year old. Grow up folks! This is an adult minded forum and people need to quit attacking and look at themselves before passing judement. These forums are for keeping snakes and to further herptocutural interests. Not a place for tree huggers and people who pet their snakes at in front of the television after dinner. Or think its wrong to feed a hamster to a snake. IMO we should get onto people with mindsets like this that do these things instead of linching the character of a person who knows what he is doing.. Personally I choose not to feed live snakes to another snake. Am I biased? Why? Because I love snakes?.. But that is my preference and nothing else.

*throws another log into the fire*

I am sorry everyone feels sorry for the perfectly healthy cornsnake. But kingsnakes (especially ones from the east coast) prefer snakes. Keepers even have to scent their mice to get them to eat the "unatural" mice as their first meal. This should tell us something. I also know people who are breeding birds for snake chow because they are nutritionally healthier for snakes and are easier and cheaper to breed than mice. I beleive herpetoculture in the future will breed more birds for their animals. They grow faster and eat more readily.

Tweet tweet.

" Even if he did he has done nothing wrong . If he has done something morally or ethically wrong will someone please point out what that is?"

The fact you are even asking that leads us to the conclusion, thru its' absurdity, that we may have to cut this one short. Simple standards of conduct, thru appreciating our snakes that we keep, may not mean much to you, but it means something to many others. I am not saying that you feel this way, but your question may allude some to ask.

" Snakes are also not pets. AT least not in my definition."

In case you didn't know, they are pets to most hobbyists in this industry and viewers of this web site. If you feel this way, why do you even own them?

" Grow up folks! This is an adult minded forum and people need to quit attacking and look at themselves before passing judement. These forums are for keeping snakes and to further herptocutural interests."

Attacking and judging someone and declaring that an obviously healthy corn snake which was fed to a kingsnake, but yet the poster swears that the snake had not eaten in 3 months, was an ridulous act, is two completely different things. It should be that simple to see.

People can see thru this whole thing for what it really is. Please do not make this harder than it should be. The proof is in the pics. Healthy corn, while being lied about, was fed to a king for kicks. Nothing more.
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Genesis 1:1

I don't know why nobody beleives me that this snake had not had a single bite it had actually shrunk between sheds.

" There were no skin flaps"

I know factually that this thing had not eating and losing weight, all the babies were pre mature in my opinion as only 1 of 9 ate out of the egg and 3 in total are what i would call troubled feeders 2 of which i have resolved and are still in my care.

You guys are all crazy for insulting my better judgement and i would never injure another snake for enjoyment every post on here of my pics says enjoy at the end and was not meant how it is being taken.
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

"I know factually that this thing had not eating and losing weight, all the babies were pre mature in my opinion as only 1 of 9 ate out of the egg and 3 in total are what i would call troubled feeders 2 of which i have resolved and are still in my care"

Sounds like an all around bad clutch. Corns are usually not bad feeders.

And for what its worth I am sorry your experience here has been ruined by others. I will send you and email and I hope you stick around for a while but I wouldn't blame if you if you didn't. I would not want to associate with the way these folks have treated you either. But there is something to consider before you never return here. You know how so many people called you stupid for posting this pic. They called you idiot ect ect. Well we both know that you had no intention of causing this fracas. Now everyone can see you did not do a purposful troll job and you EVEN aplogized to those who you may have offended. Which was not neccessary but proves you are a very decent person. Now its really up to you to forgive them. For they are all the ones which judged you and the picture wrong. Be the bigger man and don't leave. These people don't care if they are right or wrong otherwise there would be a long thread of apologies. See through that and accept it. They just don't get their hypocracy and you can't change their offensive position.. Now I ask you to be the bigger person and stay a while, post some more pics and just enjoy yourself sharing the love you have for this hobby with others.

See ya!

Rainer

Wow, that is a healthy attitude! I say contribute what you can. You can't please everyone. I ain't gonna cast no stones 'cause most of my adults live in glass houses!
Todd Hughes

We all know kingsnakes eat other snakes. No kidding. I know it happens in nature, and I'm sure some keepers feed their kings other snakes, including corns. Out of sight, out of mind. My problem with the person that posted this is, not only did he feed a healthy looking, live corn to a king on this forum, but also on the cornsnake fourm, of all places. Do people that raise and admire corns really want to see this? Would it be cool for someone to post pics on this fourm of an indigo chewing the head off of a live Florida king? May not be a big deal on the indigo fourm, but what about the folks that have an attachment & love for florida kings?
As far as feeding F/T mice, I don't see how that even compares to the live corn being fed to the king. Now if your talking feeding live rodents to your snakes, then yes, fair comparison. But then again who on here is posting pics of live rodents being fed to snakes over on the rodent fourms? If the corn had looked like it was on it's death bed, or at the very least pre-killed before hand, I would have had less issues with the orginal post. There's no educational intent in that post. It was the showoff factor, pure & simple.
Steve

LOL Steve the indigo reference is so true, they are brutes and I doubt you would have had more than a response about possible parasites over there! I guess it is true that the shock value is higher for a lot of people in this newer generation, it started way before. I enjoy seeing what these animals can do in nature,(I actually said enjoy!) but our rooms are nowhere near nature as a lot of prey items could escape or give a decent account of themselves. There has been a lot of discussion about feeding live vs.prekilled prey and I could only say that I prefer to feed fresh killed prey and don't bother to kill pinkies for the hatchlings as I believe I get a better feeding response. That all being said, I don't feed snakes to snakes but I have fed some in the past to get a slow feeder started.
Todd Hughes

What amazes me is one picture can ilicit so angry a response yet we cannot rise together and shoot down bad herp laws! If as many people would respond to their elected officials we might have a fighting chance, lol! (I guess that is why we have seperate forums, this would have been better received if it was a field experience and posted there instead of a place where so many care so hard for nonfeeders. i am guilty of showing many pics of my snakes eating mice and rats but the rodents are dispatched in the blink of an eye before feeding except pinkies. I will moderate my own photos to show them in the best possible light.
Todd Hughes

" i am guilty of showing many pics of my snakes eating mice and rats but the rodents are dispatched in the blink of an eye before feeding except pinkies. I will moderate my own photos to show them in the best possible light. "

Why? Show your pics! Why should you sugarcoat the "ugly" details of keeping snakes? Do we need to switch from moderators to censors now?

It's the brutal truth of our hobby that animals must die so that ours may live. Period.
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
4.3.0 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.1.0 Everglades Rat Snakes
1.0.0 Baird's Rat Snake
1.2.0 Trans-Pecos Rat Snake
0.1.0 Amel Pacific Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Het Amel San Diego Gopher Snake
2.1.0 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Amel Sonoran Gopher Snake
1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (1.1 River Road, 1.0 Non-Locale Specific)
0.2.0 California Kingsnakes
0.1.0 Thayeri Kingsnake
0.1.0 Florida Kingsnake
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
1.0.0 Western Hognose
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Chuckwalla
0.1.0 Banded Gecko

FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.0 Green Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Bubbling Kassina
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

I concede the fact but I also reserve the right to post what and when I want, so if I choose to show the snakes eating I will, but for now I choose to lay off the feeding pics. Don't worry, I have plenty of those, I don't offer food on tongs,lol,take it as kinda a cooling off period. Besides, all my adults are brumating now, so all I have up are the '05's and '06's. If it is a good shot I'll take it and share it for all to enjoy or not. I have a leather tough hide so I can defend my position should I choose to do so!
Todd Hughes

I think the over reaction is not because it was a snake and not a mouse. It is because of the way it was handled. This guy bred the snake that was used for food (you will see his post in the corn forum called "update" that brags how pretty these baby snakes are). He did not care for it as he should have as a breeder and instead used it as entertainment and then played it off like he was doing the snake a favor.
As far as snakes eating mice and people posting pictures, people post it as the natural thing that snakes do. They do not say I bred this mouse as a pet and it hasn't eaten so I fed it to my snake. It is just a different approach. I have noticed some people posting pictures of kings and other snakes eating garters and such, and they do not get a bad response, but it is in the way it is handled. Just my thoughts.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Time flies when you can't remember what you did yesterday!"

Too Many Snakes to count or List!

You people need to relax and not be so emotional. I agree 100% with Rainer.
Jason
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

I was in no way trying to offend anyone. I had been told at a reptile show by a reputated breeder she feeds troubled corns to her king and that it actually had more nutrients and gave her kings healthier coats of skin. Also i had tried everything else for 3 mnths.
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

with everything you've said...I'm staying out....but I agree.
Sam

I have to say that if that is your idea of entertainment you ought to find a hobby that doesn't include working with animals. I have fed off the occasional problem feeder as well when all avenues have been exhausted to get it going. However, I certainly would never post photos of it for "entertainment" and I at least have the decency to humanely euthanize the animal first

Sad pal....just sad

I'm not one of those "bunny huggers" that annoy everyone, but I'm thoroughly dusgusted with your thread here. If you think this is amusing, you're on the wrong forum. I'm sure there are forums out there in the WWW where you could get kudos for showing this, but not here.

I've probably seen more baby corns than most anyone reading this thread (John Schmit excepted). That snow corn was very healthy looking to me. No way it fasted for as many weeks as you say. No side flaps of skin or other outward signs of malnutrition. In short, that snake was not dying before you tortured it. If it was (no way), you sure risked transfering disease or parasites to your king snake by feeding an immune-suppressed corn.

The bottom line here is that this forum is for appreciating life. Not for the taking of life. Next time you want to feed a snake to a snake, humanely euthanize the feed snake first and spare us the horrific details of seeing it. This forum is for the promotion of the proper keeping of animals. Not the suffering torture of them.

Don Soderberg
South Mountain Reptiles
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

I'd grab you a shovel, but your grave seems deep enough as it is. Good job ruining your reputation.

Haha Andy. I still have a hard time feeding anoles to hard feeders.....let alone a corn. Did someone say he posted this in the corn forum? Seriously man.......wow.
Sam

Yeah - posting it in the corn forum seems a little antagonistic.

There was another one posted earlier, an Okeetee that had some deformity being fed to a cal king. I think that one was frozen though, don't remember.
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3.3.5 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I have tried to explain that this corn was not HEALTHY! It was 3 mnths and 2 sheds old and had not fed 1 time. I tried leaving it in a smaller container overnight several times with food. I also tried tease feedings ond force feedings but it would not hold down a meal. Also as time progressed it seemed to have a kinked spine. I even got my gf to take it to my favorite pet store and give it away for free but the owner told her it was a handicapped snake i am sorry for posting these pics.
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

"i am sorry for posting these pics"

Thank you!
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Genesis 1:1

THAT should be the end of it...a public apology for those offended, let's get on with the pics, everyone should be shooting pics of their snakes not in brumation yet!
Todd Hughes

I agree, it should end. it seems the same points keep getting repeated, and an apology was given.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Time flies when you can't remember what you did yesterday!"

Too Many Snakes to count or List!

Like come on man. It would've been slightly allright if the corn was on it's death bed but it looked pretty healthy to me. I'm sure someone would've wanted to take care of it and nurse it back to health. But putting enjoy at the top of the post. Thats sick

-yensen

I have to agree with the others on this one.. That snow corn does not look all that bad to me.. I work with alterna and pyros so i know first hand that problem freeders can be frustrating, but i never give up on a hatchling..

In my opinion the next time you have a problem feeder maybe you could give him away to someone with more time or more experiance that would be willing to work with the animal..
I know i would have taken him.

What's very interesting to note here is that i saw NO prior posts from you on this forum or the corn snake forum asking for some advise on ways to get that hatchling to eat??????

I think you made a bad choice, and posting the photos really sealed the deal!

~ Mike Russo

In case you are wondering, this isn't the first time this sort of post has been tried here, and it won't be the last.

Of course there is the hypocrisy in our hobby that showing the feeding of a live pinkie to a snake doesn't produce the same angry rhetoric. I don't see why any of us finds this any more reprehensible than feeding an otherwise healthy rodent to a snake. Although most of us don't feed live rodents to snakes anymore, it generally isn't out of some sensitivity to the plight of the rodent.

But this really wasn't the point, now, was it?

The fact that you posted photos of this on both the king and corn forums suggested that you weren't trying to show how some individuals don't feed, or that this is way in some way demonstrative of the circle of life or whatever. You were simply trying to elicit an emotional response from the other forum participants as a way to draw attention to yourself. You succeeded.

Of course, the attention you drew wasn't grossing people out or drawing "cool!" type responses. Instead, people have responded negatively regarding your character, not the event. We reap what we sow.

And before you dismiss as a bunch of overly sensitive bunny-huggers or a group of weenie snake owners who can't stand the realities of the world, stop and ask yourself what you had hoped to get in response. The folks that responded to you aren't bunny-huggers or weenies or avoiding the realities of the situation. The replies you received weren't simply emotional knee-jerk reactions, and you shouldn't dismiss them as such.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Encore, hear, hear! THAT was a response, thanks Chris! (I gotta go, got some bunnies to cuddle and some trees to embrace!)
Todd Hughes

The only thing a little wrong with this, is that he said enjoy. And I am willing to forgive him for that. I probably would not have posted that here, but come on people, this is a natural thing. If some one wanted to raise corn snakes just for feed, I would be ok with that. Remember what we are all doing here. We have taken a wild creature, and put him in a box and said you must eat this because this frozen mouse is the only thing acceptable. These snakes that we raise KILL cute little animals including baby snakes in the wild every day. Do you think a big eastern king tries to HUMANLY kill it’s prey. What is humanly killing something anyway? Is that when you can’t see the animals face when he dies? The guy also said the corn snake had a kink in its back. I don’t know about your house, but at mine that is king snake food. We need to defend our right to feed our snakes what they eat, before this industry is in big trouble. It’s not long before crazy animal rights people are trying to defend the poor helpless mouse.
Thanks
Jeff

His post wasn't about feeding an animal what it eats.
I've fed reptiles to reptiles before, it's the way of things. I'm planning on breeding some prey lizards at some point - because I want to work with some snakes that I think should eat reptiles as neonates before being moved on to rodents. Though I probably will freeze the baby lizards I produce rather than live feed.

Anyway - the response was to his clear intention behind the post.

Look at where he posted it - kingsnake and corn snake forums.

He claimed the snake has not eaten since it hatched - but the snake looks healthy and certainly was not in need of euthanizing. So his stated motive for the feeding was a lie. That has to beg the question, what was the motive?

Then he says "enjoy"

-=-

I suspect this was an immature attempt to start some kind of flame war between the king and corn people, and he did not realize that this forum has people primarily with some maturity. He should have tried it on myspace.
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3.3.5 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

FunkyResYou are right. Bluerosey you are wrong.

The poster displayed satisfaction at feeding one snake to another and sharing photos of the act. His posting of several photos only reinforces the fact that he thought others would share his morbid interest. That, and/or his incredibally poor judgement was the source of the posting.

Yes, reptiles eating other reptiles is natural in the wild. But the poster created an artificial "feeding display", photographed it, then posted the photos in a sophomoric attempt at creating a grotesque gladiator sport designed to appeal to the lowest common denomiator. Unfotunately for him, the lowest common denominator here is much higher than he expected.

I am glad so many people have posted about their value for life, even "lowly" snake life that most folks couldn't care less about, by way of such informative postings.

Tom K.

Unfotunately for him, the lowest common denominator here is much higher than he expected.

I wouldn't go that far! I really get a kick out of the maturity issue as well. "If" this person was posting these photo's for the attention, like a child throwing a temper tantrum. He succeeded, and weather good or bad attention, a child doesn't care, as long as the attention is given. Another issue in this thread that I do not understand is the "I only feed frozen thawed rodents", asside from the covenience of F/T, I think it disassociates many from the "dirty" Facts Of Life! It's nice to be able to have someone else do all our dirty work, including gassing our feeder rodents. These are the same people that would probably never eat another hamburger, if they had to raise their own cow and kill it too. I also get a laugh out of the term "Humane Treatment". As if anything that Humans have done in the history of our species is just or "Fare" to the laws of nature. EnJoy!!
-Phil

HAHAHA, I did enjoy that and feel as you do about procuring your own table fare! On with the show!
Todd Hughes

I nominate daveb as the Kingsnake forum's nightly newscaster.
He could cap up the days posts. It would be like Kingsnake.com's version of the Enquirer. LOL!
-Phil

LOL, I 2nd that!
Todd Hughes

Well, I certainly wasn't going to stop to look at a thread with this title, much less respond, but the number of replies caught my attention. The general tenor of the responses has been gratifying.

I'll just add that your "contribution" here reminded me of the guy who used to constantly parade around different forums posting blurry photographs of small native snakes eating other wild-caught reptiles in filthy-looking cages. It wasn't just that he clearly was trying to get a rise out of other folks, or even his lack of embarrassment at revealing his appalling husbandry. Something creepy about his narratives and the obsessiveness of his frequent postings told me all I cared to know about his character.

Maybe he still does the same thing. I don't know, because I made an effort to never open up any more of his posts. I've put you on the same mental list. So, thanks for saving me reading time in the future.

-Joan

before i reply on the post i had a loose mouse in my Snake room for about a week and he/she just kept gettin faster.so it was cornered among snake racks and rodent trays and out of reach this morning i noticed an adult corn looking hungry so i removed him from his drawer .then i sent him in and in 15 seconds there was ....no more mouse to worry about. the more i think about the post the less i am motivated to comment.how bout them Owls there as bad as$ kings,if it aint a rodent its a snake.

I made the mistake one time of putting a king and a corn together in a very large outdoor cage. I thought there was enough room for them to get along because the king only knew mice as food. I was not expecting what happened- the king rushed at full speed and attacked the corn as if it were the feeding response to a mouse, if not even more intense. It immediately twisted it up into multiple kinks- there was no saving the corn, and it promptly ate it. I was struck by the pictures here because it didn’t look like this king mangled this corn like my king did to that one I witnessed. In nature it would not surprise me if some feed exclusively on other snakes. Same reason the “King” cobra gets its name. They are ruthless cannibals. I think most of us knew that before we started liking them so much. I didn’t know so many snake keepers were so squeamish about feeding them. I agree it is no fun watching a death match of any animals. In most places such sport is illegal. I, for one, always feed my snakes live prey. Mice that are above hopper size are always “stunned” by holding them by the tail and giving a quick flip and a whack. It sounds really bad and barbaric, I guess, but it is instant and more humane in my opinion than suffocating them with CO2 or any other namby-pamby method. I wouldn’t post a video of it and I would think it was pretty sick to consider such as entertainment. But I do it without regret or hesitation. Rats and mice can injure a snake, otherwise I wouldn’t do it. I use to buy day old chicks from a commercial breeder in N.C. They were .25 each and were “seconds”, born with missing or extra toes, etc. They would electrocute them by the tray full. They are even cuter than mice, but I fed them live to my Kings and Rat snakes because they were cheap and couldn’t hurt my snakes. King eats Corn- nothing new in that story.
Check out this link for a picture you may have seen before- I would imagine it is a photoshop creation. I am sure it is meant to be somewhat funny if not taken too seriously. If you can do that.

http://gallery.dierenparadijs.be/data/500/medium/hpim3924-border.jpg

That is my method and I fully endorse it. It isn't for everyone and I don't bash people who use frozen, just ask for the same in return. It is fast and efficient and for me, economical timewise as well as space saving. I don't get a kick out of it but get a kick out of knowing they have the next best thing without the possible injury.
Todd Hughes

LOL

i dont know what possessed you to post those pics on the cornsnake forum, other than sheer stupidity. personally, i dont like to see pictures of snakes eating anything unless its really weird (like the snake is in a weird pose or situation)and there is something to be learned from it. i know snakes gotta eat...other snakes, mice, lizards...whatever. but i think stuff like that is best kept to your own website or self. i mean, i'm hoping to eventually be breeding my snakes to be making some extra money, but theyre first and foremost my pets, and i think a lot of people on these forums feel the same way. i dont like to see snakes suffering, or any creature for that mater.

~Erica

.

A few weeks ago I posted pics of one of my cal kings eating a corn but the corn had an ireparable cloacal prolapse and was suffering. It was not something I enjoyed, although it was an interesting learning experience.

That corn looks fine to me and if you are going to feed something to a snake that does not even know how to constrict it you should humanely kill it first. I would say that killed mice are also the humane way to go.

With all that said I am surprised at the reactions here. There are plenty of people I know who have bread corns simply for kingsnake food. My problem is with that little enjoy at the end.

And don't post that crap on the corn forum, thats just really dumb.

I don't know why nobody beleives me that this snake had not had a single bite it had actually shrunk between sheds.

" There were no skin flaps"

I know factually that this thing had not eating and losing weight, all the babies were pre mature in my opinion as only 1 of 9 ate out of the egg and 3 in total are what i would call troubled feeders 2 of which i have resolved and are still in my care.

You guys are all crazy for insulting my better judgement and i would never injure another snake for enjoyment every post on here of my pics says enjoy at the end and was not meant how it is being taken.
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

Thanks all for scaring me from this site you are all more savage than i could ever be. Have fun with your FanCy Web Site
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1.1 Columbian common boas (Zeus, Athena)
0.1 BCI 50% het albino salmon (Aprodite)
1.1 Corn snakes (Appolo, Boreas)
0.1 King snake tri striped cal morph (Helios)

We never meant to scare you, it was just the way you posted it. It should'nt have been posted in the corn forum I mean they are'nt used to the vicious feeding of kingsnakes.

To all people saying that its a natural thing to feed live un-stunned anything to a snake.

The thing is that the way we keep our snakes is not natural. I mean seriously do you think that snakes live on paper towels in the wild. Prekilled might not be the most humane way but the death of the animal should occur in the quickest but most importantly painless fasion.

Just my two pinkies on feeding.

...post got this much ire/attention/response as it did.i can see what's not cool about it but at the same time we're talking about a captive produced snake,furthermore a species that is mass produced about as much as the domestic/lab mouse....makes me wonder a little about my comrades/associates on this fourm and what makes them tick,to be honest.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

was thinkin! its pretty bizzare to say the least, i wonder if guppie(fish) breeders act like this, i beleive all the haters fail to realize that captive snakes especially captive produced morphs!!! are DEAD to nature! its very much like animal rights activist gone WAY WAY WAY WRONG with no understanding of biology or nature AT ALL, its like the IDIOTS who argue that cb hybrids are gonna RUIN natural ssp. when introduced,escaped,etc. into wild pops. what a laugh that is, folks fail to comprehend how roughtough and unforgiving nature is and or didnt see/understand/comprehend H.G.Wells war of the worlds ahahahahaha,,,,,,,thomas

Huh ? I hear what you are saying but you say they are dead to nature then site nature as to why they are the way they are? Which is it?

I also agree nothing wrong with snake on snake crime its the intent of the pics maybe that has people pissed. I guess he posted it in the Corn forum. Why would they care to see that ? Seems it was for reaction.
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Big Jack Bronson

no, what im saying is captive snakes are dead to nature. our cbb snakes are dead to nature, theres a reason we dont find albinos,snows,etc in nature its the same reason ANY cbb snake will not make it in the wild hybrid or not and thats because nature is TOUGH and HARD and weeds out the genetic flaws that we find attractive and breed for, now as to the other, kingsnakes eat other snakes its in their makeup if this offends people maybe keeping snakes is not for them and if corn keepers are offended then i say get a grip and accept it for what it is and thats one dead snake eating another dead snake,,,,,,,,thomas

HA HA I got ya friend... You had me confused for a minute there. You are right snakes in captivity cease being natural especially those that are far removed from wildstock.
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Big Jack Bronson

Introduced species, weather hybrids or a local specific specimens, can and do, damage the eco system though. Brown Tree Snakes in Guam, Cane Toads in Australia, and Burmese pythons in the good 'ole U.S.A. are perfect examples. The point that most of the species and locality pure people are making, is that if a particular species does become very rare in the wild, and all that is left in captivity is hybrids of that species, then the species can be lost. I beleive that the hybrid hobby and species specific hobby can and should co-exist. The problem is when the hybrids start creeping into the species specific market. Thayeri are a perfact example of this. There are very few Thayeri breeders that can document their stock back to the early animals that were brought into the U.S. by Lloyd Lemke and a few others. I would be willing to bet that a larger majority, of the so called pure Thayeri, than people think, are hybrids. One of the upsides of hybrids is that they can be very agressive feeders and hardier animals, but on the down side this can give them an advantage over native species if they are unintentionaly introduced, such as the species mentioned above. African Bees were hybridized with American bees, as an experiment, because they produce more honey. And look at the havick this has produced in the Americas honey industry. I just think that people need to be responsible with their animals, weather hybrids or "pure" breds. The problem is the majority are not and in some cases it only takes one or two accidents to create BIG! problems for the environment and our hobby.
-Phil

Very well said Patton ! Im not a fan of hybrids and Iv always felt that those that create hybrids have little regard for those that dont like them. Fact is Hybrids can and do ruin some "pure" lines thru misrepresentation but Ive never heard of a Locale animal mucking up someones hybrid project HA HA HA...
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Big Jack Bronson

Boy do I agree with your post!
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Genesis 1:1

Posted by: BIGJACK at Wed Dec 6 15:57:06 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Very well said Patton ! Im not a fan of hybrids and Iv always felt that those that create hybrids have little regard for those that dont like them. Fact is Hybrids can and do ruin some "pure" lines thru misrepresentation but Ive never heard of a Locale animal mucking up someones hybrid project HA HA HA...
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Big Jack Bronson

Well as a known hybrid breeder and locale specific breeder I prefer both. But I don't think hybrids are mucking anything up if you keep your ear to the ground and follow whats going on. In other words... buyer beware and don't just turn a sour ear to those who hybridize. Some of the top breeders in themlast 20 years are hybridizers yet their name with pure species is what they are recognized for!

A lot of the pure colubrid morphs are already hybridized (maybe thats why the craze in the Ball python market?) But even the balls are being hybridized as we speak and have a high asking price.

The people you have to worry about "mucking up" pure species is the breeders who do not advertise them and breed hybrids. Matter of fact i know of a few anti-hybrid breeders who are "closet" hybridizers (usually the ones who protesteth to much). They are the ones releasing hybridized morphs into the market as pure and ripping people off with thei "good" name.

So alot of the pure colubrid morphs are already mucked up and can't get and more mucked up (I really like that word muck", LOL) . Maybe thats why the craze in the Ball python market. But hell, even the balls are being hybridized as we speak and have a very high asking price.

You are right buyer beware its not just hybrids but people who misreprsent animals whether hybrids or not.
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Big Jack Bronson

ranier-i have to ask you,as a self-proclaimed locale-specific breeder-how can you support intentional hybridization,knowing full well that each individual specimen in the market just increases the likelihood of diluting,if you will,the bloodlines of snakes that are bred for subspecific purity let alone locale specificity?whether it happens intentionally or unintentionally,both are common occurences.....

about your claim reython regius hybridization-this is news to me-with what species?.....

your accusation of 'closet hybridizers' was awfully sweeping and vague.i know a lot of breeders,and the only ones that endorse hybrids-either by just selling them,breeding them themselves,or doing both-are often called on such practices and are indeed frequently forced to be vocal in their defense of it-thus they are well known as such....on the other hand,most other breeders i know decry the whole practice of hybridization,and do not breed or sell them.i even know of some that specifically said they stopped browsing/using this website for the very reason of 'too many hybrids' circulating here-some being advertised honestly,some not....

as far as the colubrid market being mucked up already,well i think that's quite an exageration;and yes it could get much more so....sure not absolutely everything is just exactly what it is being sold as,regardless of whose hands it's in;but that's a cop-out....the same could be said for the 'crotalid market','viperid market',the 'boid market',etc....like you said,buyer beware.some (sub)species-many of which are my personal favorites-are not even currently recognized taxonomically valid.it's with these that one can see the importance of keeping suspect bloodlines out of the picture,as herpetoculture is sort of their 'last stand',if you will....bummer is,there are dishonest people in this hobby-money is here to be made-and each hybrid produced is a potential risk to the purity of either species involved in creating said.....think of it like police having those 'handgun turn-in' days,no questions asked,they just want the guns off the street.the guns themselves aren't the problem,it's some of the people that get their hands on them,key word 'some'....

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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

Justin,

While that post was a bit antagonistic it still was a good post. Unfortunatly time does not allow me to address all the points you made tonight. I will like to get to it later tommorow when I have time.

With your permission I would like to copy and past your post on the top of this forum because its shame this is low down this forum. I think it would make for interesting debate and info. In the meantime maybe someone can post all the ball python crosses (because i am not a ball python fan). Off the top of my head I think there are Blood X balls (aka superballs) and Dumerals x balls, *woma x balls (*pictured below), there are more. Some were priced in the 5 digit range at the daytona expo this year.

Hopefully this topic will not get out of control with people emotions this time. *fingers crossed*

Go ahead and copy it and paste it if you want place it at the top and I will answer tommorow.Or maybe this should be moved over to the hybrid forum because this is really not the right forum even though I think this is something everyone needs to hear on this forum.

Justin you are a wise man. You echo my sentiments exactly on hybrids. I know there are responsible hybrid breeders out there but for every responsible breeder I bet there are ten fold that arent. In my perfect world there wouldnt be hybrids the risk of contamination is too great. Now I realize its not fair to dictate to other what to breed etc... I have no answer to the problem just concerns and opinions. Once agaion Justin great post !
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Big Jack Bronson

.

let's see here-a few more-green iguanas;spiny-tailed iguanas;cuban tree frogs;any geckos save for the ashy or reef gecko(i forget which one of the two is native to the u.s.);spectacled caimans;any varanus genus lizardbrown anoles;crested anoles;african clawed frogs....this could go on for a while,lol....and that's just those brought to the continental u.s....phil mentioned the brown tree snake(also now in hawii,partially responsible for the banning of all captive snakes there)....there's of course the ones established in 'the wrong part of the right country' i.e. outside their natural range(red-eared sliders well,everywhere;texas horned lizards in north carolina;red-sided garters on the east coast,etc.)....lastly there's those emmigrants of ours such as bullfrogs;(again) cane toads(from central/south america,to australia);and (again) red-eared sliders(from the u.s. to se asia),to name a few....so yeah the morphs usually don't make it but to say captives can almost always be released into the wild with 'no harm,no foul' is definitely off-base.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

I don't recall any hybridized colubrids that have interbred with any wild species in the continental usa. Matter of fact I don't recall any sub-species of colubrids breeding with those from a different part of the usa. So releasing animals is not just limited to hybrids but all pure snakes from a different locale can breed with others wether it an escaped snake or intentionall released. Take for instance pure cal kings in florida would easily breed with floida kings or .... most reatsnakes will volutarily breed with other ratsnake spp species if allowed.

Also Hawaii is very fertile ground for any animal. Hawaii has almost all of their animals introduced. The rats and cockroaches came over on Capt Cooks ship and later they intentionally imported mongooses to keep the rat population down and no they are all over the place in Hawaii. I think the toads were releasesd to keep certain insects (also introduced) under control in the cane feilds. The Brown tree snakes recently came over from flights from Guam and law enforcment has checked evey flight to insure they get them all but they still made it and are starting to establish themselfs even though there is a commercial effort to catch them all.

I used to work for the Honolulu Zoos reptile dept in 1982-1983 with the late Sean McGeon so I could go on and on about Hawaii.

Florida is as bad as Hawaii. They have huge problems with introduced species out competing the native species. Habitat alteration is also allowing integration of native species as well. The Yellow Rat Snake X Everglades Rat Snakes is a perfect example. You'd be hard pressed to find a true Everglades Rat Snake in the field now a days. Then there are the unique, natural, intergrades that have had there habitat completely destroid, such as the Pinellas Co. Kings, which are an inergrade between an Eastern King X Florida King. It's sad that some of these species only exist because of Zoos and the herp hobby, and yet the goverment is still trying our rights to have many of these species. It really makes you wonder what their objectives are.
-Phil

I used to get angry at posts like these and this guy obviously was seeking attention... But - who cares?

You people act like it is awful to post a pic of a corn snake being eaten yet you cheer on pic's of a rodent getting squeezed until its eyeballs pop out.

I am not a veterinarian but I bet the mouse feels more fear and pain when getting killed by a kingsnake than a corn snake.

Give me a break!
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Peter,

LOL, you are a day short and dollar late (or is it dollar short and day late? lol!) About half the post were erased and this was covered at length.

You ought to check in more often.

I am sure I did not miss much.

No offense.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Your right. You didn't miss much. You basically summed up what took 50 posts with your one post. LOL!

Posted by: ECC at Thu Dec 7 20:37:09 2006 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Give me a break!