Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I sold a dragon to a guy and now he is writing me emails saying the dragon pictured had a lot of red and the dragon he received has no color at all. Granted the dragon in question happens to be a sandfire red x german giant, but shows little or no red to me. He is brown and yellow..........I have a sister to this guy that has great red all over her face and back, etc. I have explained that he is probably due to shed, especially since the sister just shed two days ago and they are about the same size, but what else could I say to make him believe he got the same dragon????

Anyway, please tell me if this dragon is red? Doesn't look very red to me......

Oh and on a side note....... the dragon pictured has a rub sore on his chin.... the dragon he received has the same sore!
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

looks kind of brown or rust to me...not so much red. still a very pretty dragon, dont know why hes complaining
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proud mama to:
1.0.0 ball python
0.0.1 albino florida kingsnake
1.0.0 leopard gecko
0.1.0 colombian rainbow boa
0.1.0 bearded dragon
1.1.0 colombian redtailed boas (on the way!)

$96.00!! and he does have the genes for red!

>>looks kind of brown or rust to me...not so much red. still a very pretty dragon, dont know why hes complaining
>>-----
>>proud mama to:
>>1.0.0 ball python
>>0.0.1 albino florida kingsnake
>>1.0.0 leopard gecko
>>0.1.0 colombian rainbow boa
>>0.1.0 bearded dragon
>>1.1.0 colombian redtailed boas (on the way!)
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Lisa, sounds like he got a deal! The dragon picture to me has an over all “red” tint to it. I think that has to do with the way the picture was taken. As you can see from the picture that I posted here, the one on the left is yours and the one on the right is one that I took some red out of.

I think “most” of the problems people are having with the color coming out right is the monitor that they are looking at. I will post a thread soon with just some color bars and people can see if their monitors are showing you a “true” color...

I am going to send him that picture with the side by side view.

>>Lisa, sounds like he got a deal! The dragon picture to me has an over all “red” tint to it. I think that has to do with the way the picture was taken. As you can see from the picture that I posted here, the one on the left is yours and the one on the right is one that I took some red out of.
>>
>> I think “most” of the problems people are having with the color coming out right is the monitor that they are looking at. I will post a thread soon with just some color bars and people can see if their monitors are showing you a “true” color...
>>
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

I offered for him to send it back to me at HIS expense if he is truly unhappy and I would refund the purchase price when he arrived. I also sent him that picture you edited for me. All I have to do now is wait and see.... Would make more sense to just keep him. Especially since it cost $35 to ship him out there and will be $35 to ship him back (Which is $70) and he only paid $96 plus shipping to begin with.

>>Lisa, sounds like he got a deal! The dragon picture to me has an over all “red” tint to it. I think that has to do with the way the picture was taken. As you can see from the picture that I posted here, the one on the left is yours and the one on the right is one that I took some red out of.
>>
>> I think “most” of the problems people are having with the color coming out right is the monitor that they are looking at. I will post a thread soon with just some color bars and people can see if their monitors are showing you a “true” color...
>>
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Does this dragon look red?

I was talking to someone on the phone and he had read from my post (because the same thing has happen to me)
Now I can't remember but it says something like, "if you think you see red then don't buy them, because they are Orange dragons"

So he is reading that and tells me, "ya, he does look red"

Well, does it look red to you? I don't think it does. It is an orange dragon and I think the pic is an orange dragon.

What is your opinion?

Thanks
Joel R

It's orange and I saw the exact ad your talking about because I almost emailed you LOL

>>Does this dragon look red?
>>
>>I was talking to someone on the phone and he had read from my post (because the same thing has happen to me)
>>Now I can't remember but it says something like, "if you think you see red then don't buy them, because they are Orange dragons"
>>
>>So he is reading that and tells me, "ya, he does look red"
>>
>>Well, does it look red to you? I don't think it does. It is an orange dragon and I think the pic is an orange dragon.
>>
>>What is your opinion?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Joel R
>>
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

Joel,

To me, the dragon look’s more red then orange. Here is an image that I just made. I took your picture that you just posted and “sucked” the color out of the dragon’s passenger side front leg. That was the “orange” that I could find that looked the best.

The top left color is the color that I took from the dragon. Does not look to orange to me. The color to the right of it is an orange color that I made. The third color right below it is red. Here is what makes up the colors...

“Dragon Orange”:
Red: 121
Green: 70
Blue: 27

“Orange I just made”:
Red: 255
Green: 125
Blue: 0

“Red”
Red: 255
Green: 0
Blue: 0

The next question would be: what colors do you see? I use Adobe PhotoShop 7.01 for all my color work. What we “see” in “real” life is not the same color on the screen…
Hope this helps and I will post more about color when I got time...
Steve

The pic on my screen looks orange and is a very color accurate pic as to the actual dragon.

Now, if you are sucking some of the color out to make it look more orange on your screen, then that is a falsely represented pic. The pic I posted is an unaltered pic and represents the color of the dragon.

So I guess, what I'm saying is,, "what are you saying?" I don't quite understand what point you are making.
The dragon pic I posted looks orange on my monitor, and Lisa said it looks orange on hers. Could it be your monitor settings?

What does it look like to others? (please jump in everyone)

This topic is getting interesting.

Joel R

brownish orange with orange along the spine and along the sides.. overall color, brownish orange,so yeah.. i guess what im trying to say is, i see orange. just trying to say exactly what i see my monitor should be accurate

>>The pic on my screen looks orange and is a very color accurate pic as to the actual dragon.
>>
>>Now, if you are sucking some of the color out to make it look more orange on your screen, then that is a falsely represented pic. The pic I posted is an unaltered pic and represents the color of the dragon.
>>
>>So I guess, what I'm saying is,, "what are you saying?" I don't quite understand what point you are making.
>>The dragon pic I posted looks orange on my monitor, and Lisa said it looks orange on hers. Could it be your monitor settings?
>>
>>What does it look like to others? (please jump in everyone)
>>
>>This topic is getting interesting.
>>
>>Joel R
>>
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reiko
photos

I guess what I am saying is what you see is not correct, just like what I see is not correct. The only way to truly get the correct color is to accurately set you monitor. Just like your dragon, if I wanted to make the dragon “look” orange, then I just set my monitor up to make that color orange. The readings that I gave are what my program kicks out to me and are 100% real life colors, just not what I see on the screen. You may see orange when you look at your dragon in real life, but when you take a picture of it and put it into your computer, you have no real control over what color you are getting.

Does this make sense? Do not ever believe what color your monitor is showing you. The only way to get almost “true” color is to have your monitor calibrated. I use to work in the printing industry and did all my work on the computer. I would “see” one color on the screen, but when it was printed on paper, it was a different color. The picture that I included was only of three colors to show you what your screen is showing.

Does the picture (and not the dragon) look orange to me? No

I think I understand what you are saying "but"

Why is it, the dragon looks the same in person as it does in the pic, from my monitor?

The answer to that would probably be the missing puzzle piece. lol

Thanks.
Joel R

Would it be that , I have my monitor adjusted to make the pic that others would see as a more red,,
look more accurate on my monitor?

That would kind of make sense. or at least make the most sense to me. If that is the case,, how do I make sure my monitor is adjusted properly?

Joel R

yeahi think so joel cause the pic you put up the dragon doesn;t look like it has any orange to me but more rust red. alot of times when people put orange on the screen in here it looks like bright orange like brandons dragons on my screen don;t look pumpkin orange they look real bright orange.

mat

And on my monitor, Brandons Orange/snows, look like a bright yellow/orange. Hmmmm.??

Joel

I have never seen any picture of a dragon so far that looks red to me. Most of the blood reds look more like a orange-red....but heck, the name blood red fits and I certainly wouldn't complain if I paid under $100 with a orangy-red dragon pictured above. But then again I wouldn't buy a dragon or any other reptile without seeing it in person. Then there is no confusion.

I think you got it! Now, here lies the BIG problem. Do you fix your monitor to look like someone else’s? Or do you keep it the same so your dragon's look like your dragons? My suggestion would be to keep yours as is. You just have to tell people that their monitors “might” show colors that are a little different then what the animal looks like. It is a good idea to tell everyone what the dragon looks like so they can not only “see” it but read it also. I see that you have done nothing wrong with selling the dragon as you did. You told the person the dragon is orange, but they believe it is red. Who is at fault? No one…Let me know if you need anymore information…

I think that should really open all of our eyes. Like I said to Southern_ Dragons.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"You see rusty brown, others see red, or orange, etc.

Just imagine,, all the pics we see every day, "all of us" are seeing them different. lol

I see people raving about some that are just okay, and the opposite. We are all seeing a different color pic. lol

That is really something if you think about it. "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something we may not otherwise consider when looking at pics. We are so quick to blame people for altering pics (which does happen) But this shows that perhaps, the pic doesn't look that way on their .com so when they post it, they have no idea, how I or you see it.

What a can of worms. lol

Later & thanks again GoldDragon.
Joel R

Here is a link to a picture that Lisa posted and I did a liitle "color removal" on it. This is right along the same lines...

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=120610,120716

I will even attach the picture right here...

Steve

Now, I'm wondering if I should leave my monitor the same because we also have to consider the "camera" settings.

I can tell you that I have adjusted my camera settings to best show the pics to the actual subject (in this case, the dragons) "BUT" that is also adjusted, to fit, what I'm seeing on my monitor.

I must add, that I haven't touched the color settings but more so the aperture, brightness, etc. But I did make some changes from the factory settings. I'm no photography expert so please excuse me if I messed those terms up. lol

Is there a system or a procedure or even a standard used to adjust the monitor so I can compare what I am seeing from my pictures taken with my camera settings / monitor settings?
Like for TV's there is a DVD called Video Essentials which you can use to calibrate your TV. Is there something like that for monitors?

I guess what I'm saying is, the camera settings and monitor settings would be just as important as they would both feed off of each other to create the visual outcome. An adjustment in either would create a different appearance for a given picture.

I think that's the last question. lol

Thanks.
Joel

Don't have much time for the answer, so I will post a thread later tonight with your name in it so you can see it.

First thing you can try to do is:

Take a picture of your dragon AND a Coca-cola can (Classic) right next to him/her and then you can see what is going to happen to the picture.

You should post it in the new thread when i make it and we can start there. That should give you an idea what your camera/computer is doing. Most problems I am seeing is with red and orange. I think people might need to include a picture of something that we all know the color of. Coke can is a good example as everyone knows what that will look like in "real life" without much variance.
Steve

np

Just noticed that I linked this thread to the begging of the SAME THREAD! Wish Kingsnake would get a better forum so this type of thing does not happen. Also, sticky’s would be a VERY nice thing to have, then we would not have to answer the same questions EVERY day...lol...
Steve

i see orange of course, its carrick... but what do you see?this should help you know wether you need your monitor adjusted or not

just kiddin,,, its radioactive carrick, just messin around, boy im bored today....

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reiko
photos

>>Joel,
>>
>> To me, the dragon look’s more red then orange. Here is an image that I just made. I took your picture that you just posted and “sucked” the color out of the dragon’s passenger side front leg. That was the “orange” that I could find that looked the best.
>>
>> The top left color is the color that I took from the dragon. Does not look to orange to me. The color to the right of it is an orange color that I made. The third color right below it is red. Here is what makes up the colors...
>>
>>“Dragon Orange”:
>>Red: 121
>>Green: 70
>>Blue: 27
>>
>>“Orange I just made”:
>>Red: 255
>>Green: 125
>>Blue: 0
>>
>>“Red”
>>Red: 255
>>Green: 0
>>Blue: 0
>>
>> The next question would be: what colors do you see? I use Adobe PhotoShop 7.01 for all my color work. What we “see” in “real” life is not the same color on the screen…
>>Hope this helps and I will post more about color when I got time...
>>Steve
>>
>>
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reiko
photos

>>>>Joel,
>>>>
>>>> To me, the dragon look’s more red then orange. Here is an image that I just made. I took your picture that you just posted and “sucked” the color out of the dragon’s passenger side front leg. That was the “orange” that I could find that looked the best.
>>>>
>>>> The top left color is the color that I took from the dragon. Does not look to orange to me. The color to the right of it is an orange color that I made. The third color right below it is red. Here is what makes up the colors...
>>>>
>>>>“Dragon Orange”:
>>>>Red: 121
>>>>Green: 70
>>>>Blue: 27
>>>>
>>>>“Orange I just made”:
>>>>Red: 255
>>>>Green: 125
>>>>Blue: 0
>>>>
>>>>“Red”
>>>>Red: 255
>>>>Green: 0
>>>>Blue: 0
>>>>
>>>> The next question would be: what colors do you see? I use Adobe PhotoShop 7.01 for all my color work. What we “see” in “real” life is not the same color on the screen…
>>>>Hope this helps and I will post more about color when I got time...
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>-----
>>reiko
>> photos
>>
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reiko
photos

With respect to the color #'s you posted above. (keeping in mind, the pics didn't work)

Depending on everyone's individual monitor setting, i.e. Hue, saturation, Red, Blue, Green, 6500K, 9300K etc.
Any adjustment on any of those setting, would alter the visual outcome of any color adjustment you would make on a photo program.
i.e.
If you & I had the same monitor and made all the adjustment in our monitor settings, then theoretically, the pics would look identical.
Change the brand monitor then that could change because the factory settings are not going to be identical.
So, if you take any color value of a pic as such.
“Dragon Orange”:
Red: 121
Green: 70
Blue: 27

If our monitor color settings are not the same, that value has basically no meaning other than what that color value will look like on your monitor with your settings.

If I am missing something please fill me in. I'm curious to see what color other people see in the pic posted above.

Another example of different monitors..
I went to my Mothers house and tried to show her some of the dragons people have posted here but her monitor is sooo dark, you just could not see them they way you can on my monitor. I tried adjusting everything I could but it just wouldn't get bright enough. The whole screen is just much to dark no matter how high the brightness, contrast, etc. was adjusted. Her monitor just sucks. lol(Don't take this wrong,, I'm not flaring up or anything, I'm trying to figure this out. lol)

Thanks for your input.
Joel R

You are on the right track, but you also have to understand that different programs process color in different ways. If we had the same monitors and set that same way, then “maybe” we would get close to the same colors. But, it would also depend on what program you are using to view the picture with, what type of video card you are using…etc…etc… The values that I gave you where right out of Photoshop and are not what I am seeing. I 100% believe you that your dragon is orange, but I believe my program more then I do my own eye’s. Anyone see the color picture that post?

I think I'm catching on.

The color pic I'm seeing is three blocks,

Brown, orange, and red.

So how do we use those?

Joel

The color blocks are just to show you what you are “seeing” on screen and also to give a value to the color. The brown color that you see is what I pulled from your dragon. It looked orange to me, but Photoshop is telling me other.

BTW ~ For people who do not know anything about Adobe PhotoShop, it is THE professional program that people use for photo manipulation and also color correction…

>>The color blocks are just to show you what you are “seeing” on screen and also to give a value to the color. The brown color that you see is what I pulled from your dragon. It looked orange to me, but Photoshop is telling me other.
>>
>> BTW ~ For people who do not know anything about Adobe PhotoShop, it is THE professional program that people use for photo manipulation and also color correction…
>>
>>
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reiko
photos

It depends I guess. Some people see colors differently, their computer screens could be adjusted wrong, or they have wrong impressions of colors. Like some people think blue violet is blue some say purple, when its a mix of both. He looks like a red orange or a rich orange.

By the way the dragons are shedding. the male is looking absolutly amazing! And so is the female she is huge you should see how big she is now. Ill post pics when they are completly done shedding.

peace,
nate

.

Pfffft..sounds like the guy got a heck of a deal. He couldn't get a normal for that price at that age!

I'd just tell him he got a great price, so you won't be offering him any money back.
If he's that unhappy, tell him to send the dragon back.
(he won't do it) but it'll shut him up.

If he does do it..that's even better, you can resell it for 175.00-200.00.!!

*unless you choose to give it to me for consultation fees..: E
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TheClassyLizard

LOL consultation fees hehehe

>>Pfffft..sounds like the guy got a heck of a deal. He couldn't get a normal for that price at that age!
>>
>>I'd just tell him he got a great price, so you won't be offering him any money back.
>>If he's that unhappy, tell him to send the dragon back.
>>he won't do it) but it'll shut him up.
>>
>>If he does do it..that's even better, you can resell it for 175.00-200.00.!!
>>
>>*unless you choose to give it to me for consultation fees..: E
>>-----
>> TheClassyLizard
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

It's a nice looking Beardy, but I don't think it looks very 'red.'
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-Lauren

~ Lauren's Lizards ~

groups.yahoo.com/group/LaurensLizards

i don;t know guys both ics of lisa and joels look pretty rusty brown to red on my screen.i definatly don;t see any oragne in joels pic must be my settin or someting

Mat Price

You see rusty brown, others see red, or orange, etc.

Just imagine,, all the pics we see every day, "all of us" are seeing them different. lol

I see people raving about some that are just okay, and the opposite. We are all seeing a different color pic. lol

That is really something if you think about it.

Joel R

I am keeping QUIET!!!!!! LOL

>>You see rusty brown, others see red, or orange, etc.
>>
>>Just imagine,, all the pics we see every day, "all of us" are seeing them different. lol
>>
>>I see people raving about some that are just okay, and the opposite. We are all seeing a different color pic. lol
>>
>>
>>That is really something if you think about it.
>>
>>Joel R
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Lisa
www.beginnersbasics.com

when you say
"I see people raving about some that are just okay, and the opposite. We are all seeing a different color pic. lol"

everyone also has different tastes when it comes to dragons. those that you may think are just ok others may just think are the most wonderful thing they have ever seen, and then some may actually see something slightly different from what you are seeing due to color variance of our monitor etc, but as we have seen, the colors we are seeing are pretty close, there isnt a huge difference between oranges, reds and browns, at least not as subtle as the difference is as i am seeing between pics, eventhe one from beginners basics, just that tinge of red removed, makes a huge difference.. then again.. im color blind hehehe

>>You see rusty brown, others see red, or orange, etc.
>>
>>Just imagine,, all the pics we see every day, "all of us" are seeing them different. lol
>>
>>I see people raving about some that are just okay, and the opposite. We are all seeing a different color pic. lol
>>
>>
>>That is really something if you think about it.
>>
>>Joel R
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reiko
photos

And joel too! This has been a very intersting thread! Ive always woundered about what people see on their own monitors and if its different. Im glad its brought up.

peace,
nate