Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey all just was reading over some stuff and wanted to see what everyone thought is it correct when breeding an albino retic and an albino burm that the albinisem gene doesnt cross over ? and would this result in the f1's being hets and breeding them back into eachother would produce true 50/50 albinos? or does the albinisem ggene cross over?

Most likely the different albino genes will not be compatible, no and you will end up with double het-albino bateaters. Which is still very good. But there are sometimes surprises and the least expected happens in hybrid breedings and I would never say that it was impossible for something albino to come out of any given hybrid pairing. One breeder in germany, his name is moritz von zeddelmann but he goes by the name of Moe in forums, produced the world's first african rock/reticulated hybrids by breeding, if memory serves correctly, a calico female retic to a wild-caught normal male rock. In the batch of babies was an albino even though neither parent was albino or het for albino. Unfortunately none of these babies were able to escape their eggs and they all drowned but they all made it to full term and pictures of the dead babies are available.
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David Beauchemin
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Where could we see pictures of those dead babies??
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T. West
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Here's a link to the first thread after they died on the Clark forums. In it there are pictures of the dead babies. Truly a shame. In attempts to prevent just this scenario I emailed Moe a month before the eggs were due to hatch and warned him about the lack of egg tooths in hybrids and that he would need to candle them every day to detect movement and would have to cut them out himself in order for the babies to make it out alive. Apparently he just didn't candle them soon enough or make it in time with the scisors. The babies are obviously full term and drowned in their eggs.

We are currently working on this project and have gravid tiger retic females bred by patternless rock males. We hope to successfully produce these and tiger retic/rock hybrids het for patternless in 07. Irregardless of our future success Moe was the first to produce this hybrid. It's irrelevant that they didn't survive.

http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32647&FORUM_ID=11&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=There dies my dream...&Forum_Title=Picture Forum
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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
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Thanks for bringing that to this forum. I disagree however that if you are sucessful you should not get the credit. If it isn't alive then it's not a sucessful project....good luck to you I hope yours are. It's exciting that you used morphs as breeders as well, the possiblities really are endless with that cross. Do you know if the retic used in that breeding you referred to was a het amel?

I am also a little confused as to why you posted photos of your amel hybrids here in the past and didn't post the photos of the normal/het offspring, in my opinion they are much more attractive looking animals and show more of the hybrid characteristics that we desire in our offspring. Once again thanks for bringing that to the table, there are so many forums out there now that alot of stuff gets missed.

Horridus

I respect your opinion/position on the rock/retic issue and who produced them first. But seriously, just because they didn't live doesn't mean he didn't successfully breed the adults and successfully produce the fully developed hybrid offspring. Those amazing babies were produced whether they lived or not and nobody can take that basic, unchangeable fact away from Moe. He showed that it could be done and that means a lot.

Neither of the snakes in that breeding were het for albino. Both were wild caught specimens. The female was/is a calico retic and the male a normal rock. That's what makes the presence of the albino baby so fascinating. You never know what you can get in hybrid breedings. I have had many surprises over the years but nothing quite this severe.

Here's a hybrid double het for albino and granite. She's one of our personal holdbacks being raised to be a breeder in the near future. Her name is "Golden Girl". She and all her het siblings become more gold and yellow with every shed. We have no idea how far this will go or how long it will last but we have visions of very yellow hybrids with sharp, crisp black outlines.

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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com