Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My hatchling will not eat, I have read all the care sheets etc, and have tried several kinds of food, reto-min sticks during soaks, etc.

i am misting a few times a day, but it seems he still gets dry with his eyes dried white and shut

when i soak him he seems to get much more healthy

i got him about 3 weeks ago and do not think he has eaten

i included a picture of my setup, please tell me what you think i am doing wrong or what i should try

thank you very much

It looks like the substrate is one of those reptimats made of a compressed material almost like corkboard. For a hatchling, you need a much more moisture retentive substrate like sphagnum moss, bed-a-beast, or peat. I prefer sphagnum personally because the latter two seem to get stuck anywhere and everywhere on the turtle. Provide at least two inches of substrate depth. Keep the substrate constantly moist and allow the turtle to bury him/herself in at will. If your turtle is dehydrated, its mind might be completely bent on rehydrating and not on eating. It may also help to cover half to 3/4 of the enclosure to keep humidity within.

Make certain that the turtle can crawl into and out of the water bowl. Soak in lukewarm water daily.

Offer living prey items both in and out of water. Earthworms are usually my hatchlings' first food. The best I've found for a hatchling are tiny earthworms that I dig up in my garden. Waxworms, tiny superworms, small mealworms, roly polys (sowbugs, potato bugs, isopods, etc.), pinhead crickets, tiny snails, and tiny slugs should all be tried. Leave the turtle in with a few of the food items for an hour in a secluded spot. Do this daily.

Aside from the daily soaking and feeding, allow the turtle to hide, even all day if it chooses. A feeling of security is very important, especially in this early stage of life. You can also place small earthworms in the enlosure. Often, the turtle will eat while buried in the substrate.

I've never had any luck with Reptomin as a first food item.

Some hatchlings can go quite a long time before their first meal...just keep trying.

If the care sheets that you read didn't address the substrate and humidity issues, then they were incomplete. I'd encourage you to read more. Scroll backwards in this forum. Not only are there some great posts, but there are also some wonderful links regarding hatchling care. Your problem is common, and is one of the reasons why I think baby Box turtles are a challenge to raise.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Do you like my little yellow tail?

the real help would be posting a smaller pic re size that....

2 inches or 1 inch? I thought I remember telling me 1 inch of Sphagnum. Well, whatever, my hatchling seems very healthy now.

i wanted to give you guys an update since you were so helpful with your responses to my cry for help for my hatchling

i followed the recommendations, i put a good layer of sphangum moss in the enclosure and got it good and moist, and also closed off the top of 3/4 of the enclosure to keep in some humidity

i let the turtle adjust to that for yesterday, today i soaked him for 15mins in some lukewarm water, during which time and during which time i got some small earthworms

i cut the worms into even smaller pieces, when my turtle was done with his soak, i put him into a small cardboard box along with a few of the worms

and he went right for them! ate up a good amount of earthworm

so i am very grateful for the help and hope that my turtle is on the way to a healthy life

.

That's great to hear! Congratulations!

I had my first hatchling last year and he would not eat unless I put him in a shallow container of water with something live (small wiggly earthworms were his favorite). Twice a day I would place him in a container with about 1/4 inch of tepid water and add live foods and he started eating really well. I kept this up for months and eventually he started eating live foods that I just dropped into his enclosure. He didn't start eating greens and fruits until almost a year old and stayed buried in his enclosure for the first several months of his life. I had to dig him out to feed him each time and let him soak and eat for about an hour at each feeding. Also, I had to keep his substrate (I used leaf mulch and soil from my yard) very moist, almost wet, because when I left it dry he had eye problems, almost as if his eyes were stuck shut. I've read that box turtle hatchlings should be treated as partly aquatic because they can dehydrate very easily. When I started keeping his environment very very moist he seemed to pick up alot! He is 14 mos. old now and is hibernating this winter in his container outside on my covered back porch. I'm not sure what I did was totally correct, but it certainly worked for my little guy. Also, in addition to a lot of moisture, I kept him very warm for the first several mos. and that seemed to perk up his appetite. Good luck to you!

I had the same problem with my hatchlings this year. After 2 months of not eating I decided to hibernate them. They all dug down into the soft soil were I put them outside. I have since covered them with 2 feet of leaves. This is the fist time I have hibernated the hatchlings.
-----
Jack

I'll poke a couple points that haven't been hit by others. The theme to go with is emulate nature on a few points. Think like a turtle, not like a caresheet contractor.

You could burn the mess out of your little one if that enclosure-length fluorescent is a UV tube (I'm assuming it's a ReptiSun or something like that).

Give a less vibrantly-colored water bowl - perhaps pink, perhaps sherbet orange
It also helps to let water stand overnight - chlorine seems to burn soaking turtle buns and eyes. Whatever you feed, feed on the ground, not in the water bowl.

Baby box turtles like cover. They like leaflitter to hide under and dirt under that. You don't have either. It won't smell like "home" without these things. It won't feel like home without the consequent humidity (spraying many times each day means something isn't right). Get the substrate right and you get the humidity right. Get the humidity right and you don't have to keep a water bowl in the cage or soak every day, too.

If you can't get dirt and leaves for some reason (apartment in Phoenix?), you CAN find a retail giant. Cheap bags of Pine Mulch (not Pine Chips/Bark) with the chips sifted out give a nice "soil" that holds humidity and resists fungal/bacterial growth.

Most baby box turtles aren't difficult to keep. They're one of those critters that needs a few points met early in life, and everyone seems to be convinced that there are important, different, specific recipes to get success. I think THAT's the difficult part.

Hi,
Just wondering what you mean when you say:
"You could burn the mess out of your little one if that enclosure-length fluorescent is a UV tube (I'm assuming it's a ReptiSun or something like that)."
Thanks!

Meant just that. Young turtles can be sensitive to those ReptiSun bulbs. The fluorescent bulb covers the length of the tub, looks to be suspended very close, and there's not much cover for the turtle.

Thanks! I figured that's what you meant, though the obscure verbiage clouded the message - thanks again for the clarification.

>>Give a less vibrantly-colored water bowl - perhaps pink, perhaps sherbet orange
>>It also helps to let water stand overnight - chlorine seems to burn soaking turtle buns and eyes. Whatever you feed, feed on the ground, not in the water bowl.
>>
>>Baby box turtles like cover. They like leaflitter to hide under and dirt under that. You don't have either. It won't smell like "home" without these things. It won't feel like home without the consequent humidity (spraying many times each day means something isn't right). Get the substrate right and you get the humidity right. Get the humidity right and you don't have to keep a water bowl in the cage or soak every day, too.
>>Most baby box turtles aren't difficult to keep. They're one of those critters that needs a few points met early in life, and everyone seems to be convinced that there are important, different, specific recipes to get success. I think THAT's the difficult part.

I had an old black plastic reptile hide box lying around when I took in this hatchling I have & put it in this one's little habitat. The baby stays inside it almost ALL the time. I lifted it out the other day to take the baby in for a soak & feeding.. the same way I do the adults. I took that thing away & there waws the baby asleep in that Superman pose that cracks me up.
IMO a turtle in the Superman pose is a comfortable turtle.

I think you have a good point about the bright red water dish. They are attracted to red as a food item, it may be too bright to use as the water dish.
Like my adults I am not using a water dish at all for this baby. They each take a "bath" every day. I allow them to soak until they've voided & that's always worked for them.. seems to be working just fine for the baby as well.
I haven't had any problem at all getting this baby to eat but I have no plans to ever feed it a pellet food. I'm thinking the fact that all I've offered is live food has a lot to do with why it's eating so well for me.
Maybe the OP in this thread should try several live items?
I've got phoenix worms thanks to a nice person, baby roaches, wax worms, small crickets, the baby hasn't turned down anything yet.
-----
PHRatz

It's great to hear that the hatchling is doing well!

I laughed when you wrote of feeding the little baby. My young ornates are like my little sanitation crew. I know that if no others will eat it, my little ornates will...with gusto! Nothing goes to waste.

UVB lighting is important; but too much with hatchlings inhibit their feeding response.

For a substrate, Milled peat moss kept damp would allow them to burrow to the desired heat needed and attend to their humidity requirements. It will become more firm within a week and not be so sticky. It's easy to aquire and is a natural long lasting substrate especially for hatchlings. Kept over an undertank heat source with 3-4 inches of milled peat moss, always damp will greatly help your boxie environment. I also keep a small black plastic hide over their bedding area ( an old frozen dinner receptacle with an entry way made on one end ).

Try keeping your hatchling in a smaller, shallower watering dish. Too much light in the feeding area will cause a response to hide for self preservation. I have had very good luck with low light at feeding time, shallow water at 88 degrees. Cover the sides of your enclosure with black or dark green paper. As I stated in an earlier post security is of upmost importance with very young boxies. They instinctively possess this as their greatest fear as it is also the age when most are susceptible to predation.

Regarding keeping them with an enclosure mate; this varies with the individual. Some are loners and need to be by them selves; but some feel secure with just one other mate and will actually feed more readily and eat more as if in competition with each other.

Those large mealworms for a first food are too large and too tough skinned for a newborn. Tiny mealworms with very thin bodies that have just shed are nice and soft and barely move for a first meal that will not intimidate him...but I still like very small earth worms best.

Cut up thin garden worms, 1/8 inch and no longer, try injured pinhead crickets barely moving, many will take Reptomin that has been broken into tiny pieces.

Hatchlings can be finicky. I have found that hatchlings will be slow at first; until their digestive systems become used to many types of food. Note they will not feed readily until their yolk sac is completely absorbed which is dependent on temperature. I keep my hatchlings temps around 84-88 degrees F. with 80% humidity for proper shell formation. Another factor that will greatly swing your hatchlings mood to feeding is UVB and UVA light. The two combined act as a powerful stimulant; the shell becoming stronger being able to form D3 and the UVA causing them to be more active. Once biosynthesis of D3 starts; the hatchlings will crave food and need it every day.

Again after the yolk is absorbed ( 5-10 days at 84 degrees slower at lower temps) I give my hatchlings 1-2 hours of UVA & UVB light. I gradually increase the amount over a two week period until they are receiving 8-10 hours. I presently have four sets of hatchlings at different stages; but all will be put on a schedule. I have found that they will get used to certain times for feeding and will be out and waiting for their vittles! I start them on Calcium and D3 (with inside lighting) the second week of feeding.

They will not crave veggies as much as live or prepared dry meat based food; because at this stage they are more carnivorous. But I slip chopped DK. greens and mashed yellow squash in the food the third week and they feed on all greedily. Regarding feeding scheduling; I believe hatchlings have a very fast metabolism compared to adult boxies. They desire and need food every day. At 4-6 months, you can kick back and feed them every other day.

Good Luck and read all you can. Caresheets are not the best; but you can cross reference and read the posts here. I spoke with the author of the link I'm providing to the web site below and recommend it. It should answer most of your questions that will inevitably arise.

Ric K.

Link

thank you all so very much for the most helpful responses, i am making the recommended changes as fast as possible and hope my turtle takes a turn for the better

one question is, where would you recommend i get milled peat moss?

thanks again

Milled peat moss is moss that is aged and ground via a mill. It is the most common at your garden center; used for adding organic matter to gardens. It is dark brown to almost black in color and is more uniform as a substrate. You will need to barely dampen it, and keep it damp. It is a good indicator that it meeds water as the color lightens when it is too dry.

You can purchase the 2 cubic bale size at Wal Mart or Home Depot garden section.

It's may be labeled just peat moss; however all is millled to break up the large pieces.

The large green full pieces of Sphagnum moss that I use in my pics for aesthetic purposes even though they are sterile are relatively short lived in a boxie habitat. It will rot in a couple weeks. However it is the base of milled peat moss that has aged and been broken down biochemically to a more stable form.

Incidentally Sphagnum Moss grows wild all over here; but the wild type is loaded with parasites, bacteria and also has a bio symbiotic fungi that can over time cause boxie shell problems even though the fungi has some antibiotic properties.... as does varieties of Blue Mold which produces penicillin.

Ric K.