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I had a wc rubber boa that wouldn't eat anything, and I tried all the tricks. Well I got to talking to a friend of mine and he told me this story about one that he had that didn't eat for 15 months and didn't loose any weight, then someone gave him a pair that was eating, so he put all three together and the next feeding attempt wammo, the snake ate. I started thinking about this and thought maybe it has something to do with competition. Well I didn't have another rubber boa, but there were a lot of garder snakes where I caught him and I had a melanistic garder that was a machine; would eat anything. I put the two together and the snake started eating. So far my competition theory is holding out.
Next I tried doing this with my corn snake hatchlings. I separated them out by putting 5 to a cage. Then I dropped a entire litter of mice in. In all four groups I got 2-3 snakes that ate the entire litter, which was like 4-5 pinkies each. Then I separated out the ones that ate into their own cages, and repeated the same thing. I got no problem feeders.
Ok so now to make this on topic I am contemplating using this technique on the kingsnake clutch I expect next spring and was wondering what the experts think. Has anyone else observed similar phenomena. Do you think a compeditive envorinment is capable of stimulating the feeding response? Or do you think I will loose some of my hatchlings to each other? Just some food for thought.
Cheers,
Jason

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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

Thats a cool idea but I wouldn't do it with kings. I would say that there is even some risk doing it with corns ect. Maybe separate each for the first feeding and then put the non feeders together for a try?

When kings get in feeding mode they will eat anything they can. There is also the problem of two snakes each starting to eat the same pinky from different ends although that could happen with any snake not just kings. If you watched them while they ate and could intervene you might be OK. The biggest thing is when they are not feeding. I have seen some people keep kings in groups after hatching for extended periods. Sometimes it works fine other times it just doesnt.

I believe I remember FR saying that he had kept kings in groups with no problems, but I have personally witnessed baby cals eat each other WHILE STILL IN THE INCUBATOR! granted thats not the norm.

What type of kings are you talking about? Cals and any eastern variety would be worst. Your best bet would be with tricolors.

cheers

Rubber boas are seasonal eaters. Especially the W/C ones.

Most of the babies and adults I have kept stop feeding in Sept and go all the way until early spring. The best thing to do is keep them cool so their reserves are not used up. Also charina like it cool. So by keeping them with your others snakes (heat tape, warm room ect) might be to warm.

When rubbers eat, they also EAT. And by that I mean they eat a lot in one sitting. Put in sveral pinks or fuzzies at one time and they will stuff themselves. Thats how they eat and store up reserves.

The most common trick to feeding charina is putting in some of the nesting the pinkies were in. Then do not put the nest where the snakes sits (do not put in front of the snake). The rubber like to hunt and FIND their food. Hide the nest of mice and they will be gone. By hiding it I mean in a corner under something like cardboard. I used to keep several rubber in old egg carton shelves (The 24 count type). Turn them over and stack them and the rubber like to tunnel and hide in them. Most of the time they were out visible anyway but this adds a sense of security. I hid the mice in their nesting materil on one side of the cage away from the snakes. They also take F?T mice this way if they are in fresh nesting.

Rubber from different ssp. eat better than others . The southern ruuber do not eat doemsetic mice. The rubber from Wsshington state are the best. They get the biggest and eat everything. I used to feed the Vienna sasages (no joke). I learned this from a friend who lives up in Washington and fed these to them. But I think it is just the washington state rubber who will eat those.

All w/c will still go off feed in late summer early fall.

Vienna sasages!!!! Thats too funny. I'm gonna have to give that a try. Thanks for the info.
Jason
These pics got deleted in a post yesterday so I put them up again.

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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

Rainer, I have a 3.6 group of Charina from Washington.
One of my big females will eat a whole hot dog. I have a pic somewhere, I'll have to scan it and post it for you. I wouldn't recommend that anybody do this regularly, but it definitely is odd to see.
-Phil

I feed all of my Erycines together at the same time, because I too have found that I get a better feeding response out of them when they are together. One of my Rubber Boas, however, has not eaten since I got her (about five or six months ago).

When I got my Rubbers, I got a long-term captive pair and a yearling CB female. The adults are total pigs and eat whatever I put in front of them, but this female just won't eat at all. I've tried all the tricks.

Even though it's been at least six months since her last meal, she still appears perfectly healthy and she does not look skinny at all. I'm not worried about her, at least not yet. If she doesn't eat on her own come springtime, though, I'm probably going to force feed her. A year without food is about the edge of my comfort zone with Rubbers.
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0.0 Banded California King
1.0.0 Mexican Black King
0.0.1 Goini Kingsnake
1.0.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
0.0.1 Kenyan Sand Boa
1.2.0 Rubber Boas

When I got my Rubbers, I got a long-term captive pair and a yearling CB female. The adults are total pigs and eat whatever I put in front of them, but this female just won't eat at all. I've tried all the tricks.

Even though it's been at least six months since her last meal, she still appears perfectly healthy and she does not look skinny at all. I'm not worried about her, at least not yet. If she doesn't eat on her own come springtime, though, I'm probably going to force feed her. A year without food is about the edge of my comfort zone with Rubbers.

I would never force feed a rubber.

Rubbers are seasonal and sometimes that means a short season. I have had rubber eat 2 months out of the year. Every year. But that does not mean a couple mice a meal. That means stuffing them until they can't eat. Then wait a few days and stuff them again. They eat (depending on size) 6-12 mice at a time.

If you rubber is not stuffed with mice when it does have it feeding window, then you will have a starving snake. Its not natural to force feed a rubber. They simply don't compare to other snakes and colubrids which i think should be force fed.

There is a really cool care sheet on rubber boas by Ryan Hoyer. I will see if I can dig it up and post the link here.

.

i know it was a feeding Q for kings ,but i learned way too much about rubber boas,lol, no more room for new snakes ,hello i am an addict.

He was asking us if we think that would help us with our kingsnake non-feeders. Well I think this is a very interesting find. But a previous poster suggested separating them then putting together the non-feeders. Also kings eat other snakes so once they start on the mice they might continue on each other. There is a fear even with corns that two wlll grab onto the same mouse.

Other than that even with kings, if its not eating in the first place and is a late feeder if this gets them to feed early and you watch them to make sure they don't eat each other, this method should be good as any other one. Maybe using those freshwater fish tank deviders to make it so they see and smell each other but can't get at each other.

Who knows maybe your clutch of corns was just from two good bloodlines that easily fed on mice.

> I had a wc rubber boa that wouldn't eat anything, and I tried all
> the tricks. Well I got to talking to a friend of mine and he told
> me this story about one that he had that didn't eat for 15 months
> and didn't loose any weight, then someone gave him a pair that
> was eating, so he put all three together and the next feeding
> attempt wammo, the snake ate.

I had a WC rubber boa that refused to eat - until I found a second, and kept them together. Both ate.
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3.3.5 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

That is an interesting observation. My little corn snake experiment was kind of fun, but I guess I need more data. Competition is important to the success of many plant sp. I just wonder if that could be the case with some snakes too.

Jason
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

I have a couple of non eating GBKs. That will be the ultimate test. I'll try it this weekend. I hatched out 7 live ones. 2 ate with no problems. The other 5 I force fed some mouse tails a couple times, and 3 are now eating, but the other 2 haven't caught on yet. I haven't heard of your method, but it sounds promising. Thanks, and I'll keep you posted. Derek

I like how you applied your theory to get the snakes eating - the whole separating into groups thing. I also hope that the theory pans out, since it is alot easier than scenting or force feeding or hoping or waiting...

Looking back, I did notice that some communally-caged rosies would have exceptional feeding responses, but I also saw the other way around, where one rosy would not eat in the presence of another, yet feed fine when alone. I never thought about it then. What if some types of snakes do have a social order? What if some do compete in the presence of others, while some do not? Just like in any social group. Especially for snakes like sandboas and rosies and RBs, since they likely stay in a relatively limited-sized area all their lives in the wild. Very interesting.