Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My five month old red food, for some reason, won't eat crickets. Is there some other type of protein I can give him, I've given him some hard boiled egg and he'll eat that. Can I give him any kind of meat? Or do you have any tips to get him to eat the crickets? Thanks.
-----
People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp

1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise

Earthworms & nightcrawlers. They are slower than crickets, and therefore easier for a tort to catch, but they sit there and wriggle around and the torts love that. Also earthworms are easier to keep than crickets. I get a small tub of nightcrawlers from the bait shop and it keeps in the fridge for a few weeks.

I had a hingeback for awhile, and aside from earthworms it also liked Mazuri tortoise pellets. Although it isn't animal protein, it is much higher in protein than the standard fruits and greens a redfoot typically eats. Also RepCal tortoise pellets is high in protein. The Pretty Pets pellets are lower in protein but have a nice fruity smell that some torts like.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Right now he's only about four inches long so he might have trouble with a whole nightcrawler but maybe some little catfish worms. Thanks Brad!
-----
People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp

1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise

There is no need to feed your Redfoot crickets. Redfoots don't need any more or any less protein than any other tortoise. If you use a good varied diet of dark leafy greens (any consumable greens) in addition to low moisture fruits and berries you can raise a perfectly healthy tortoise.

I've have had fantastic results using Mazuri tortoise diet with my tortoises in addition to the above diet

This is another one of those urban legends... that Redfoots need more protein. This concept probably originates from information that was taken out of context from one of the few natural history accounts that have been passed around over the years.

>>My five month old red food, for some reason, won't eat crickets. Is there some other type of protein I can give him, I've given him some hard boiled egg and he'll eat that. Can I give him any kind of meat? Or do you have any tips to get him to eat the crickets? Thanks.
>>-----
>>People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp
>>
>>1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Really? Well that takes some weight off my shoulder. He gets lots of mustard and collard greens, and dandelions when they're not buried in snow. I do feed him Mazuri once in a while, usually when I'm rushing off to work and don't have time to chop up a bunch of veggies. Thanks
-----
People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp

1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise

If the Mazuri is at least 50% of the diet you shouldn't have a worry in the world. Try to mix up the greens a little more.

Don't be affraid to feed stuff like any of the lettuces, spinach or any of the other greens many say to 'never feed' provided they are part of as varied a diet as possible.

>>Really? Well that takes some weight off my shoulder. He gets lots of mustard and collard greens, and dandelions when they're not buried in snow. I do feed him Mazuri once in a while, usually when I'm rushing off to work and don't have time to chop up a bunch of veggies. Thanks
>>-----
>>People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp
>>
>>1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I've not read too much on the redfoot, so I'm just sticking my nose in where it don't belong.

But I've probably seen the same references to a couple studies from the 80s and 90s that you have that say redfoots (and yellowfoots) eat some carrion & bugs. And that a shortage of an amino acid from animal protein may lead to muscle problems. I think Tortoise Trust feeds their redfoots one small meal of catfood pellets a week.

I found a veterinary science article that says a lack of animal protein (or high quality protein) led to liver problems in a redfoot.

www.scielo.br/pdf/abmvz/v56n1/a20v56n1.pdf

If I had a redfoot I might feed it a bug a week along with the higher protein pellets as a small portion of a fruit & greens diet, just to cover all the potential bases. When I had a bell's hingeback I fed it pellets, fruit, greens, a few bugs and sometimes a bit of lowfat canned dog food. It grew nice and smooth for the couple years I had it. Should've kept that one.

The point I was trying to make is that all tortoises require protein. I don't think I'd be wrong to say that they all require the same amount of protein. Where that protein comes from might be debatable.

The article you provided is interesting but it only happens to be of a redfoot that is suspected to have died of not being fed enough protein.

That article is along the same lines of redfoots 'need' fruit (as well as carrion) because a group was observed eating a good amount of fruit (as well as carrion)and so these items are a need.

If you've been around tortoises for any length of time (especially if you have kept them outdoors) (as I know you have, Brad) you will see that tortoises in general are opportunistic feeders. They have a set nutritional requirement and I'm under the impression that instinct tells them how to fill that requirement.

Many people get into the mindset that certain species require a certain diet where it should be that many species prefer or are conditioned to a certain diet.

I know most Redfoots are not one of those animals. Redfoots are opportunistic feeders to an extreme for the most part.

My main point is that when you focus on any one component you are at risk of causing an overage or deficiency in something. In my opinion, Redfoots do not 'need' animal protein or fruit. They seem to like the stuff and it seems to provide a good treat but I don't think it is a necessity. What is a necessity is providing all the nutritional requirements in the ratio that they need for good growth and I'm pretty sure it can be provided without animal protein provided they are consuming as varied a diet as possible.

>>I've not read too much on the redfoot, so I'm just sticking my nose in where it don't belong.
>>
>>But I've probably seen the same references to a couple studies from the 80s and 90s that you have that say redfoots (and yellowfoots) eat some carrion & bugs. And that a shortage of an amino acid from animal protein may lead to muscle problems. I think Tortoise Trust feeds their redfoots one small meal of catfood pellets a week.
>>
>>
>>I found a veterinary science article that says a lack of animal protein (or high quality protein) led to liver problems in a redfoot.
>>
>>www.scielo.br/pdf/abmvz/v56n1/a20v56n1.pdf
>>
>>If I had a redfoot I might feed it a bug a week along with the higher protein pellets as a small portion of a fruit & greens diet, just to cover all the potential bases. When I had a bell's hingeback I fed it pellets, fruit, greens, a few bugs and sometimes a bit of lowfat canned dog food. It grew nice and smooth for the couple years I had it. Should've kept that one.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I always agree with the varied diet approach.

But if I read that an animal eats fruit in the wild, I will at least try to include that. If the animal likes it AND it doesn't cause stomach upset, then I'll keep on until I read otherwise. If an animal is a fruit/greens/bug eater, it would be violating the "varied diet" rules to not include these items in a reasonable ratio. Also the animals seem stimulated by different foods. My bearded dragon will eat his greens, but he goes bonkers for hopping crickets. My russians will faithfully consume clover and endive, but will sprint for a dandelion flower.

When I got my CB K. belliana, the info I found indicated that they were full omnivores who lived in a semi-humid environment. I created the setup and gave it greens/fruit/bugs. It produced solid poops, was active and healthy, and grew nicely with a smooth shell. I considered that a success.

I also had a Vietnamese leaf turtle. I found all varieties of recommendations for these guys. Warm, cool, carnivore, omnivore. It only ate bugs and it would rarely come out from under the substrate, no matter how I varied the environment or diet. I considered that a failure.

Animals don't always eat what the caresheet says. My Russians eat a lot of grass even though they shouldn't. My leopards avoided grass, even though they are supposed to be big grass eaters. Their dietary preference was weeds and greens, which led to runny stools. I compensated with high fiber pellets (Mazuri or Pretty Pets). They had better poop, and grew slowly and evenly.

I think animals might have an instinctual sense for what to eat in their environment, but if you take them out of that environment then they just become opportunistic out of deseperation. Then you get all of those horror stories from the Tortoise Trust about Testudos eating ham and chocolate. My Russians love to chew on my shoes with the orange stripe. I think all they know is "bite brightly colored objects."

I haven't included shoe in the diet.

Yet.

I didn't say the item should not be included in the diet. I meant to say that it should not be a worry if it does not eat it. Those items can be replaced with something of a nutritionally equal value.

Belliana, like the leopard and the redfoot comes from an extreme variety of habitats which is why it has an extensive range except now it is quickly being split up (another discussion). To say that it only comes from a humid environment is not really true because depending on the season it can come from a dry, wet or anywhere inbetween environment.

My observation on being opportunistic feeders is based on some observations of Desert tortoises and Gopher Tortoises in the wild in addition my own animals given enough undeveloped space. Add to this the notes of observations of tortoises in the wild witnessed by friends and others I'm pretty confident in my statement even though it is only my opinion...

I don't tell anyone they have to follow my advice or that anyone else is wrong. I just like to make sure my point of view is known.

>>I always agree with the varied diet approach.
>>
>>But if I read that an animal eats fruit in the wild, I will at least try to include that. If the animal likes it AND it doesn't cause stomach upset, then I'll keep on until I read otherwise. If an animal is a fruit/greens/bug eater, it would be violating the "varied diet" rules to not include these items in a reasonable ratio. Also the animals seem stimulated by different foods. My bearded dragon will eat his greens, but he goes bonkers for hopping crickets. My russians will faithfully consume clover and endive, but will sprint for a dandelion flower.
>>
>>When I got my CB K. belliana, the info I found indicated that they were full omnivores who lived in a semi-humid environment. I created the setup and gave it greens/fruit/bugs. It produced solid poops, was active and healthy, and grew nicely with a smooth shell. I considered that a success.
>>
>>I also had a Vietnamese leaf turtle. I found all varieties of recommendations for these guys. Warm, cool, carnivore, omnivore. It only ate bugs and it would rarely come out from under the substrate, no matter how I varied the environment or diet. I considered that a failure.
>>
>>Animals don't always eat what the caresheet says. My Russians eat a lot of grass even though they shouldn't. My leopards avoided grass, even though they are supposed to be big grass eaters. Their dietary preference was weeds and greens, which led to runny stools. I compensated with high fiber pellets (Mazuri or Pretty Pets). They had better poop, and grew slowly and evenly.
>>
>>I think animals might have an instinctual sense for what to eat in their environment, but if you take them out of that environment then they just become opportunistic out of deseperation. Then you get all of those horror stories from the Tortoise Trust about Testudos eating ham and chocolate. My Russians love to chew on my shoes with the orange stripe. I think all they know is "bite brightly colored objects."
>>
>>I haven't included shoe in the diet.
>>
>>Yet.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

It seems that we agree.

Although I'm caring less and less if anyone knows what I think.

It's the same old questions over and over and over and..

You know what I mean.

It may be the same old questions over and over again but I like the fact that there is frequently new insight and new information being presented every day. It all depends.

Thanks for the article.

>>It seems that we agree.
>>
>>Although I'm caring less and less if anyone knows what I think.
>>
>>It's the same old questions over and over and over and..
>>
>>You know what I mean.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

mine's tried to gnaw on a boot and leather slipper, both times succeeding in just leaving a drool spot. on another occasion he went for a beaded shoe, so we took that away from him pretty quick (sure it's colorful, but i don't think he'd enjoy pooping out beads and sequins later on).

maybe instinct is telling them that they're lacking in some dietary thing that can be found in footwear...

Hehe, my bearded dragon thinks yellow painted fingernails are a good diet choice. But then, he just seems to try to eat anything yellow, even a plastic leopard gecko.
-----
People Who Say Money Can't Buy You Happiness Obviously Don't Know Where To Buy A Herp

1.0 Cornsnake 1.0 Ball Python 0.1 Cal Kingsnake 1.0 Bearded Dragon 0.1 Leo Gecko 0.1 Beauty Snake 0.2 Chilean Rose-haired Tarantulas 0.1 Egyptian Sand Boa, 0.0.1 Pink Toe Tarantula, 0.0.1 Red Footed Tortoise

i've never offered bugs to mine, because if you catch them wild, you never know where they're been, and if you buy them, they're not always very nutritious (depending on what the petstore gives them, if anything).

also, i don't like feeding live food (just a thing i have).

however, he did one try some "worm jerky" (a dead worm dried up on the driveway) before i took it away from him!

i give him just a little protein (with a diet of varied fruits, green, and occasional mazuri) in the form of a bit of cooked egg or meat, or a little piece of cheese every once in while (he usually "asks" for some if he sees us eating something he likes). never anything raw, never anything with any kinda sauce on it, and never very much of it.

if nothing else, it's a treat he enjoys and in a tiny dose, i don't see how it could do any harm.