Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a question for Chris, Matt cambell, or others who have experience with using concrete to build cages.

First, what I'm doing. I'm building yet another large cage for water dragons. The water are is 8 feet long 18 inches long and 10 inches deep. First I built a wooden frame. Next I installed a 45mil pond liner complete with a drain. I have done this in the past and it worked fine, until I dropped a branch that punctured the liner. So this time I want to have a thin concrete shell above the liner, to protect it, make it more natural looking and give the animals some grip. I have already installed metal lathe on top of the liner. I'm now ready to make the concrete shell.

What type of concrete should I use? I have read several articles, and even bought J. Erik Kinkade's book "Artificial rock waterfalls". The book does not specify the type of cement to use. Rex Lee Sercey had a nice article a while back in Reptiles magazine, and he says to use "plastic cement". I went to Lowes and Home Depot and they don't carry it, and when I ask they look at me funny. I was told to tile grout and mix it with an acrylic polymer by one builder. The guy at Lowes says to use Hydraulic patch cement. I just don't know what to do.

Can someone tell me what mix to use? I do have a gallon of $120 pool paint that I can use, but it is white, so I'd rather not paint the pool bed. I am not concerned with ph and leaching, I know putting vinager in the water and letting it sit for awhile helps.

What do you guys recomend?
Thanks,
Paul Kemes

I've never made a pool like you're talking about doing but I'm a floorcovering installer (ceramic, hardwood, carpet, the works) and I build showers (shower beds, etc...).

Tile grout isn't the way to go, it'll crack in a heartbeat because its composition is designed for small areas (grout joints), not large.

A hydraulic portland cement would work and so would a fortified gray thinset. An hpc can be applied thicker than the thinset but for what you're doing all you need is a coating for traction & looks. Thinset can be applied no more than 1/2" without the possibility of it cracking. Depending on the dips & doos of the pool you'll probably only have about 3/8" in the thickest part.

An hpc would probably be a bit stronger overall than thinset. If the cage wasn't going to be moved much after the pool is formed I wouldn't worry too much about it, the thinset should hold up just as good.

If you go with thinset, they make either gray or white. The white is for use with light colored grout to avoid bleed-through, which doesn't concern your goal. Get the "fortified gray." It has the bonding agent already mixed in so you don't have to buy a gallon of it & mix it with water & thinset. (Acrylic polymer, liquid latex, are a few types of bonding agents)

The plain, regular gray thinset costs about $5 per bag, the fortified gray thinset costs about $15. I don't remember what the hpc costs.

Check out these links:
Concret Tank

HPC

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Paul,

It's been a very long time since I've installed a concrete pool, although I understand all of the ones I built are still holding water, even those that are outdoors and experience months of freezing temperatures.

Back then I just used my own custom blend, which I don't remember. I would use portland, sand I sifted myself and some sort of latex additive. If it was a large pool and I had to order a truck I would talk with the company and figure out a blend.

You might go over the Cichlid-Forum and get lost in their articles on DIY backgrounds, etc. There is a wealth of information regarding concrete. Not pools necessarily, but you can read about various cement options. I do think you'll want some of the hydro or plastic cement mixes, preferably without any large chunks of sand.

Make sure you pour the pool all at once and get a consistent thickness. For small pools I think I poured mine at 1.5" thick, making sure the lath was somewhat above the supporting substrate. You really want that concrete to hold onto that lath and this is best achieved by allowing it to ooze through to the other side.

Also, whenever I did pools I made sure to drape plastic over the finished surface so it could cure wet.

Lastly, I found nothing better for troweling a cement pond than a stainless steel bowl with a curved bottom. It was one of those things I tried out of desperation and it worked. I poured a caiman pool once and had a couple of contruction guys helping me on community service. They laughed at me when I handed them bowls but by the end of the project they were believers.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Bighurt and I have recently become aware of the potent waterproofing capabilities of Drylok masonry waterproofer. Here are some anecdotes from the Cichlid-Forum.

1) Some guy builds a 90 gallon box from melamine, thinking that it will hold water. Not surprisingly, it fails after about 48 hours. So he paints it with some latex based Drylok and it has held water since about March.

2) Same guy has since built a handful of large tanks, including a 1100 gallon tank that is 12' x 5' x 2.5' -- it has also held water for months.

3) Another poster built a plywood tank and applied Drylok directly to it. It has also held 90 gallons of water for months now.

I guess my point is don't worry about this too much. Build the pool as best you can and buy some cheap latex-based drylok and seal it up. It comes in three basic colors and can be tinted a bit. At $22 per gallon it's hard to go wrong.

Make sure you don't buy the oil-based drylok. I think it is also considered potable water safe, but it is said to be nasty to work with.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

it helps alot! This weekend I will coat the liner with cement, I'll post pics and let you know how it turns out.
Paul