Reptile & Amphibian Forums

are you guys hibernating

Well I had the pleasure of meeting Rick Millspaugh (Never Enough Reptiles) while on business in San Diego. I picked up a pair of het limburgh albino rosys from him and they look great. It's always nice to meet another mexicana enthusiast especially when he wears the same uniform as I do to work!

Also on that trip I hooked up w/ my buddy Steve Little who has some smoking San Luis Potosi hatchlings. Best I've seen in a long time. I also got to hold some screaming albino hogs....there is something about holding 3 thousand dollars worth of snakes in your hands that is exciting. I guess it's knowing the thing can up and croak at any given minute. Hope that doesn't happen.

Let's see some pictures of your cold, sleepy snakes?

Later,
Russ

hey, i sent you an e-mail, but i dunno if you got it or not. and the only kings i have sleeping right now are the ones i got from ken casstevens. and thy are both cal kings, other than that are my black rats and corns but i'll take pics of them if anyone wants to see!
~kin
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. Orange normal (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
2. Miami Phase part zigzag (Starkey, Mcvitty)[Emilys F2]
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury) .1 Blizzard (Detta)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy) [Emilys F1 babies]
.1 Amel (Pepperoni) .1 Orange Reverse Okeetee (Lonna)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss HET Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Hypo HET Stripe (Gracie Lou) 1. Hypo Stripe (Gideon)
1.1 Anery HET Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy Cane (Peaches HoneyBlossom) [Just a pet]
1. Abbotts Okeetee (Albert) [Charlottes son]
1.1 Snow (Crickle, Isis) .1 Green Snow (Maya)
1. Caramel poss HET Butter (Topher)
.1 Anery stripe (V) [husbands snake...he named it]

Others:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)
1. High-white Reverse Spotted Cal King (Wishbone)
.1 Albino Stripe Cal King (Eve)
.1 Bananna spotted/stripe cal king (Speckle) Thanks Jeff!!!
1.1 Thayeri (Giuseppe[MSP], Cheyenne)
1.1 Creamsicle HET Motley(Orangejello, Genevieve)
1. Creamsicle motley (no name) Thanks Jimmy!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 Blizzard (Blitz)
.1? High yellow (no name)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)

no I didn't get it. Can you resend or send a new one?

Thanks,
Russ

It has been slow. Perhaps things will pick up after the holidays. I know we need to hook up and send the ladies off shoe shopping! LOL Anyway, I know I'm looking to use some of the hibernation "down time" to learn some more about the use of my camera. Top of the list, as basic as this sounds is figuring out how to put it in manual focus mode so I can do some aperture priority shots AND keep the eye in focus if its not in the cneter of the shot. Did that make any sence?

Probably would have been good last week to look for your Gopher but I didn’t have time, temps were in the 70’s and 80’s. It was cold and rainy (for us) over the weekend. Conditions should be good around the end of January through March.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Chris,

Very nice animals! Especially the animal in the second photo! I really like the very narrow bands with the reduced black borders and the clean "yellow" ground color...are these photos of a future pairing? If so, I'm interested...

These are photos of one of my 2008 projects...the first photo is the female and the male is the second photo...

Later,

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CSRAJim

...yours are super nice, too! I like that light color in the middle of the saddles a lot.

The snakes pictured aren't a pair.

The top pic is an '03 male holdback, but the second one was this year's holdback so we'll see how much of the brightness sticks around. For the time being, he's KILLER .

This is the snake set to pair w the topside male.

Chris,

Thank you...they both were produced by LP (Sundial)...

I cannot wait to see the offspring that they produce...What about the parents of the holdback animal in the bottomside photo (the one with the very narrow bands/reduced black borders)...got any photos of them?

These are photos of a future pairing...

Later,

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CSRAJim

...that bottom snake is KILLER.

I'll trade ya a super black racer...very tame (HAHAHAHA kidding).

Where is your parent stock from and how can I keep in touch for next breeding season?

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

Thank you very much for the compliment...check your email...

Hey, that is a sweet "pit" close-up photo...very nice!

If you are ever on the east coast in November, check out the Columbia, SC show...about 50% of the animals are venomous...these are some photos...

First is an Anerythristic Pigmy Rattlesnake from KB (The Hibernaculum)...next is a Luecistic Cottonmouth from PM (Simply Snakes)...and finally, a South Carolina Locale, Pigmy Rattlesnake from BA (AHP Exotics)...

Later,

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CSRAJim

really like that male. It's a dang shame all the males turn out to be smokers.
Russ

Russ,

Thanks for the compliment...

Later,
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CSRAJim

Wow Chris both are nice but that second one is a smoker! Did that come out of the ones you got from me way back when or are you now woking with other stock too?

Yes, Tony.

The sire of that snake is one I obtained straight from you.

That lil "yea, you can have him. Last one. Fifty bucks" at Richmond way back when.

I have also mixed in some Vivid (like everyone else, it seems and am very happy with the results. I "seem" to have stabilized the dark tipping a little, but who knows. There is no perfect snake but all are picassos.

All of my snakes are now my own bloodline and are tracable back to either you or Howie (Bauble, prolly)

Thanks for the compliment and did you sell all those bairdii this year?

The ol' lady wants a pair....

Chris

FYI Howies came form me too. I really wish I had retained my records of where my thayeri came form becasue at one time I had a pretty diverse collection of 8.8 largely unrelated animals. When I got out of things for awhile I lost track of most of the stock except for those that were placed with Howie. He got my bomber green leonis male and a more typical leonis femlae that had an exceptionally clean (no tipping or greying) straw yellow ground color.

I now have a pair of those plus:
1.1 Vivid (high color line)
1.1 Vivid (earthtoned line)
1.0 Bob Johnson
0.1 Chris Bauble
0.1 Mike Bodner

66% Donarra and 33% overpri...i mean, Vivid.

I think I'll call mine Vidonga stock

Chris

smoking hot...the yellow one.

I like.....I like alot!!

Russ

tony, those are my 2 favorite things!!!! shoes and snakes!!! Just not together. eww. my husband hates how i can spend all day loking at snakes or looking at shoes. i guess girls are obssessed with 1 thing or another and we dont get enough of it!
~kin
-----
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. Orange normal (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
2. Miami Phase part zigzag (Starkey, Mcvitty)[Emilys F2]
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury) .1 Blizzard (Detta)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy) [Emilys F1 babies]
.1 Amel (Pepperoni) .1 Orange Reverse Okeetee (Lonna)
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss HET Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Hypo HET Stripe (Gracie Lou) 1. Hypo Stripe (Gideon)
1.1 Anery HET Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy Cane (Peaches HoneyBlossom) [Just a pet]
1. Abbotts Okeetee (Albert) [Charlottes son]
1.1 Snow (Crickle, Isis) .1 Green Snow (Maya)
1. Caramel poss HET Butter (Topher)
.1 Anery stripe (V) [husbands snake...he named it]

Others:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)
1. High-white Reverse Spotted Cal King (Wishbone)
.1 Albino Stripe Cal King (Eve)
.1 Bananna spotted/stripe cal king (Speckle) Thanks Jeff!!!
1.1 Thayeri (Giuseppe[MSP], Cheyenne)
1.1 Creamsicle HET Motley(Orangejello, Genevieve)
1. Creamsicle motley (no name) Thanks Jimmy!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 Blizzard (Blitz)
.1? High yellow (no name)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)

It was great meeting you too; you should have let me buy you lunch though. I’m sure you could have brought the pair of Rosies into the Food Court of the Navy Exchange, happens everyday (LOL). If my co-workers only knew…. best they don’t on second thought. I of course am vague about why I’m taking leave to attend Reptile Shows too (why do you want to take leave to go to Florida in August?). So far, everyone I’ve met off the Mexicana Forum have been great people.

I sold my Hognose to Rick and Becky a year and a half ago to make room for more Thayeri (because everyone on this forum is a bad influence) of course, the prices shot up right after that. If you want to know what the next “hot thing” will be, it is whatever I sell out of or pass up buying at a bargain price.

I’ll try to get some pics. I was cleaning babies and giving clean water to everything yesterday (before and after the CHARGERS game) and was amazed how active the adult Rosy Boas and Thayeri were with the room temp around 60. The assorted Milksnakes were all hiding though, too cold for them.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Rick & Russ,

SQUIDS!!!!! No offense intended fellow brothers-in-arms because my dad (O3-DD629/Abbott-Korea) and brother (ET1-LPH9/Guam-Desert Storm) were squids as well...thank you for service! By the way, congratulations on winning the Commander's Cup...Lost money again this year to both of them...Rats! I'm retired USAR (20+ years)...

By the way...I really enjoyed that "Fumbleruskie" play for a TD this weekend...that was choice...looks like y'all will have "home-field" throughout the playoffs because the Colts are a sieve when it comes to run defense...

Later,
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CSRAJim

No worries Rick. There's quite a few of us Navy Vets that are into snakes. I used to search on & around Nas Oceana when I was stationed there. Now, I'm sure quite a bit of those areas are sub-divisions.
If you make it to Va. this Spring or Summer, you, Russ, & myself should get together and do some herping.

Steve

Hey Squid-
Let's go flip some rocks w/ that other squid in NC.
Russ

nice Rick. My rosys arrived today along with a triple het sonoran adult female and Steve slipped in a really nice alterna.....I think it's rooting for the Raiders as it is an all silver and black snake.

My wife thought the rosys were unique.....she is used to colubrids. Her first question when I said it's a boa was......."How long does it get". Such a girl

Russ

When I asked if you were taking them back with you I was wondering how you would get them through security too. Used to be a breeze. Maybe I’ll take a baby corn through one of these days just for fun – LOL (I’m kidding!). Glad they shipped okay. That alterna sounds nice, love the graybands hate trying to get babies to eat.

I just bought a het Leopard Boa and my wife was concerned with the same thing “How big is he going to get”. I said about 10 feet and 90 to 100 lbs; I couldn’t keep a straight face though, should have seen the look on her face. She’s scared to death of snakes, which is odd, because she’s better at finding Rosy Boas than I am sometimes. I’m not allowed to bring them in the car though, which is fine by me; reduces the temptation to bring anything home.

Wait until those Rosies have babies and you get an Albino; the Limberg Albino’s are simply amazing.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

thayeri.

What line is this from? How about that yellow one?

...but this one is a hybrid (GASP).

Thayeri x ruthveni a few generations back and is now four x back into my thayeri line. The lineage is COMPLETELY seperate, we're only talking about a pair of snakes here but I just had to have amelanistic variables and as of yet, this is the only way it is possible.

Chris

In your ad for these, you say "heterozygous thayeri" for sale. You don't say heterozygous for what. We all know it is for amelanism, but not everyone does. If you have crossed these back into thayeri 4 times, the chance of them being het for amelanism is very, very low. My math may be way wrong, but the chance of 4th generation still being het for amelanism is about 6%. The original cross would produce 100% hets, the first generation bred back to pure thayeri would produce 50% hets. 2nd generation 25% hets, 3rd generation 12% hets, 4th generation 6% hets. Which means, chances are, none are het.

Greg

Jeff Cerula started with these and bred an amelanistic ruthveni with a thayeri and made hets.

He then bred the thayeriXruthveni together and made amels.

He then bred them back into thayeri and made hets again and so on and so on and.....

So I bred an amelanistic thayeri from him (>80% thayeri at that point) to my thayeri line and made hets.

No offence taken. Genetics can be confusing.

Chris

I guess I took it for granted that everyone knew what they were Het for as that is a commonly accepted cross at this point and no other simple recessive thayeri trait is available commercially.

My original ad said amelanism, but this last one did not and I apologize.

Chris

.... vague descriptions. When selling "hets", the seller usually gives odds that the offspring are really het. An amel to normal pairing, like yours, would be 100%, of course. Het to het breeding would produce some normal looking offspring that have a 66% chance of being het, het to normal would produce 50% hets... I'm sure you know all of this, but others reading this post may not.

When you say that this pairing was bred 4 times back into your thayeri line, one might assume that you outcrossed to a normal, pure thayeri each time, producing the math I did. Now, that seems not to be the case. You bred amel to normal, and made hets. Then you bred the hets together and produced a few amels and some 66% hets. You took one of the amels from that pairing and bred back to pure thayeri again to make hets "and so on, and so on" as you say. Since you are only breeding to pure thayeri only every other generation, it would take 8 generations to breed back to pure thayeri 4 times. 8 generations would be around 20 years of work. OR you didn't breed back to pure thayeri 4 times. If you skipped the step of breeding back to pure thayeri every other generation, then your claim of breeding back into your thayeri line 4 times is confusing. Did you mean your line of amels, that are not pure thayeri? Anyhow, I am alot less confused by genetics than by your descriptions. I'm not saying you are purposely trying to deceive anyone, just saying that,in my opinion, you aren't being specific enough. If your ad said 100% hets, I would know that it was a pairing of an amel to a normal. Through vague descriptions, one could make alot of incorrect assumptions.

Greg

Don't worry about trying to discredit me publicly anymore, I give. You win.

For those of you who may actually not understand what was done here (not YOU Greg, I am certain you understand and are doing this on purpose),

Once upon a time, there was an amelanistic ruthveni. He had a lil' girlfriend thayeri and they had some eggs.

The eggs then hatched and they were bred together and made MORE eggs. Now, out of this clutch, there weren't many amels but it doesn't matter.

That amel was then BRED BACK to a thayeri, thereby making a more pure thayeri. Those hets were rasied up and etc.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Chris

These snakes were line-bred in this manner to produce the amel hybrids that I purchased from Jeff Cerula, never going back into ruthveni so thereby they are becoming more pure every generation.

The amel I received from him was the third time back into thayeri (20 years? gimme a break).

I bred her to one of my thayeri thereby making the offspring FOUR times backcrossed and 100% heterozygous.

I assure you that they ARE accepted in the hobby (although I do know what you mean). They're called "pastel" kingsnakes.

I am sorry that you do not like what I do but I am trying not to care.

Chris

"I am sorry that you do not like what I do but I am trying not to care."

Not really trying to get into it, because I don't care too much either. I didn't say I didn't like what you do. 20 years to raise 8 generations of snakes from hatching to sexual maturity, sure. Or if it was 4 generations bred back to other hybrids, 10 years. You also said is was bre back into your line of thayeri 4 times. Now it seems it was bred into your line one time, bred by the other guy three times. The only thing that you do that I dont like is make misleading, vague statements.

WHAT?!??!

OK, seriously.

Sorry I mislead you. Truly.

Was not my intention.

I sometimes make the assumption that people are smart.

I would have understood my own ad and that's really all one has to go on, now isn't it?

I wasn't trying to mislead anyone. The snakes ARE exactly as advertised.

Let's get off it now.

Chris

There is NO recessive trait available commercially in thayeri. Remember, you have hybrids. A number of different recessive traits could be introduced by hybridizing thayeri with alterna, etc..

This is the problem many of us have with hybrids. Eventually someone stops calling them hybrids and starts calling them thayeri, as you did. Next thing you know, someone thinks they have a pure thayeri and pops out an amel. "Wow, I produced the first amel thayeri!" Not knowing that several generations back there was a cross.

Guess I stepped into this one late.

Pastel or not, they are still awesome looking snakes.

Russ

and look at all the fun I missed!
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles