Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Any keepers working with an actual line originating back to NJ stock?

Thanks, Rich Hebron

orginal NJ pine barrens stock.

Later-Del

I have 2.1. They're last years, so they have some growing to do.

To my knowledge, the bulk of Northern Pines in captivity today are descended from NJ Pine Barrens localities (Ocean County, Burlington County, etc).

Some good breeders who have worked heavily with these and would have verifiable animals are Bart Bruno, John Meltzer, John Cherry, Gerry Salmon and Brian Sharp.

I lived in NY most of my life and kept actual northern pines from NJ. I had personally visited the Barrens on occasion. Their collection of course has been restricted for quite sometime. Ever see the collection of Northerns the Staten Island Zoo maintained? What a sight. Lines to that group would be verifiable but am hoping there were/are additional places that kept them pure.

I am cuurently looking to again keep them and would be rathar impressed with anyones stock that actually could be traced back to those lines remaining pure all along. Actually very impressed is more like it.

I will go with the above names you have mentioned and give them a shot.

Thanks, Rich Hebron

Rich..

I got my male in 2001 from John Meltzer. It is an impressive Jrsey bloodline example. John is also a great guy, awesome to talk to, and his animals are top notch. Email him at rjreptiles1@msn.com

Take care!
Billy
-----
Genesis 1:1

Hello!
as you already saw, my buddy and mentor John Meltzer has Northern Pines that are locality for the New Jersey Pine Barrens. And even that group is variable as I see in a clutch of babies I hatched this summer. First time for me! Got my adults from John as babies. And now this year John got a baby from me. Too bad there were only two males out of a clutch of eleven! And the one I liked is a male, and I was hoping female. So he's going to Gregg. My other male is going to PRAT. Congrats guys, the babies you are getting are beautiful! But anyhow, in this bunch of babies I had the nice contrasty black and white theme but many of the babies have a pink wash to them. And one, is totally dark! She is one of the four girls left that I need to find homes for. Good luck in your search for Northern Pines of NJ locale. The names listed are certainly the top breeders of locale pines. Enjoy the picture! It's of the dark baby that I had. Myself I prefer a black and white pine, but John showed me a yearling pine with the pink wash, and you know, that looks very pretty too. And John now has a girlfriend for him from one of my babies.

Great Job and thanks for the info. I as you prefer the Black & White trait. I worked with both the black & white trait as well as a reddish trait that had a very dark wash to them. They always bred true though with hatchlings basically showing the adult trait.

Anyone up North know if the Staten Island Zoo is still maintaining their Northern Pinesnake group. If so I suggest a visit, if possible, to see these HUGE, exceptionally high contrasted (Black/White)herps. I have been spoiled and am only interested in pines such as those. Actually resembles Bruno's old "SnowBall" line in color/contrast. Not sure on size though as I have lost track of that line.

Anyway, my search continues.

Thanks, Rich Hebron

I will be glad when the heat wave breaks and we get some cooler weather. I'll shoot you an e-mail very soon. P-RAT and I will have to keep taking pics to see how some of the babies in this clutch turn out to be as adults.
Thanks again Russell!

Have a good one,
Gregg F.

>>Hello!
>>as you already saw, my buddy and mentor John Meltzer has Northern Pines that are locality for the New Jersey Pine Barrens. And even that group is variable as I see in a clutch of babies I hatched this summer. First time for me! Got my adults from John as babies. And now this year John got a baby from me. Too bad there were only two males out of a clutch of eleven! And the one I liked is a male, and I was hoping female. So he's going to Gregg. My other male is going to PRAT. Congrats guys, the babies you are getting are beautiful! But anyhow, in this bunch of babies I had the nice contrasty black and white theme but many of the babies have a pink wash to them. And one, is totally dark! She is one of the four girls left that I need to find homes for. Good luck in your search for Northern Pines of NJ locale. The names listed are certainly the top breeders of locale pines. Enjoy the picture! It's of the dark baby that I had. Myself I prefer a black and white pine, but John showed me a yearling pine with the pink wash, and you know, that looks very pretty too. And John now has a girlfriend for him from one of my babies.
>>
Gregg's RB

Man, Rich, I'd love to have some of those, too. The problem is I've never been able to track any "NJ" pinesnakes back to the wild. It's always "I got them from so and so, who got them from so and so, who got them from some guy in Orlando who said they were NJ Pines." Yeah, right. Like I can trust that. OR, they go back to someone who tells me "I won't reveal my sources to you because you aren't in my clique." I don't care who you are, I don't trust anyone's word but my own verification requirements when it comes to this. I also don't trust someone with that many secrets.

Some of the breeders who claimed to have had them for decades breeding them pure buy and sell even their own adults to much for the paper trail to be reliable. I may be too picky and demand too much for me to trust a bloodline, but at least I am more confident than most that I didn't make a mistake. To each his own, right? I guess that is what allows this hobby to be fun for each of usindividually.

If I found some I could trust 100%, I'd be the first to put down some hard cash on them. I've yet to find any I can trust that well, though.
KJ

I agree. If someone is hesitant to reveal the source of their snakes' lineages or founders, they're probably hiding something.

now you agree with KJ all the time. Now there's a Yank/Reb bond.
I don't know why a person just doesn't say I haven't got the lineage instead of coming up with one. If you think you need and want the lineage of your snake, then buy one with lineage. If you have one that doesn't have lineage and you want to have lineage, then get rid of the one without and get one that has it. I've spent since last December doing that myself. Since this thread is about Northern Pine breeders and lineage, our Northern Pines came from John Ginter. His stock is Burlington County, New Jersey Pine Barrens. It says on our website that our Northern Pines are John Ginter stock.

>>I agree. If someone is hesitant to reveal the source of their snakes' lineages or founders, they're probably hiding something.

LMAO! Did we perhaps forget to take our meds this morning. In all seriousness though, you know me Terry. I like the locality specific stuff, but have a few non-locales as well. I certainly would not question anything of yours because I consider you one of the few straight shooters who does not BS. As far as a "bond" between KJ and I, he just used me to get to my axanthics, lol. You know he's braggin' about how he got over on a damn yank. Don't worry though, he'll never get my yellow girl. That's reserved for you, psycho.

I was still realing from Del's comment about me and my 20 paragraph posts. LOL. I was just making a feeble jab on your axanthic going to KJ. Then, I threw in some lineage stuff, just because I have to throw something in if my post isn't long enough. LOL.

>>LMAO! Did we perhaps forget to take our meds this morning. In all seriousness though, you know me Terry. I like the locality specific stuff, but have a few non-locales as well. I certainly would not question anything of yours because I consider you one of the few straight shooters who does not BS. As far as a "bond" between KJ and I, he just used me to get to my axanthics, lol. You know he's braggin' about how he got over on a damn yank. Don't worry though, he'll never get my yellow girl. That's reserved for you, psycho.

You might be who? You friends here may know who you are but myself, the one who posted the original question is not familiar with all the unsigned posts left under my question/questions. I do appreciate you listing Ginters name though. I have not contacted him as I don't believe he has a website and am also waiting first for some zoo sources to respond with links to documented outside possibilities. That is if any exist. I did post this in a sincere attempt to try to accompolish a goal. The people who did e-mail me with some more discussion on this topic "much thanks" and look forward to meeting all of you in Daytona to discuss further.

To all others, the first step to standing up to your lineage would be to at least state your name. If this offends any of you I apologize. Been working with herps over 30 years and times have changed, guess I have not changed fast enough as I still can sign my name.

Thanks, Rich Hebron

I was stating my views and opinions on lineage to their posts and wanted to stay in line with the subject of the thread so I tied in our Norhtern Pine lineage. You are correct Rich, I errored in not addressing the original post in this thread and giving my full name, but I thought it was covered by my friend and partner Del Alspaw who did the first response to your post. I was stating our lineage to poosphere and KJ, I really wasn't answering your questions. I figured if you wanted to know the lineage of the Northerns Del mentioned on his post, you could send an email through the post. BTW - Hi Rich Hebron; my name is Terry Parks and I'm glad to meet you. Here's a pic of one of our breeders. I wasn't offended because I was stating my lineage to poosphere and I wasn't stating it direct to you. If I was doing that, I would have posted directly to one of your posts. I was haveing a forum discussion with pooshere and staying in line with the original subject of the thread.

Terry Parks
www.kernreptile.com

>>You might be who? You friends here may know who you are but myself, the one who posted the original question is not familiar with all the unsigned posts left under my question/questions. I do appreciate you listing Ginters name though. I have not contacted him as I don't believe he has a website and am also waiting first for some zoo sources to respond with links to documented outside possibilities. That is if any exist. I did post this in a sincere attempt to try to accompolish a goal. The people who did e-mail me with some more discussion on this topic "much thanks" and look forward to meeting all of you in Daytona to discuss further.
>>
>>To all others, the first step to standing up to your lineage would be to at least state your name. If this offends any of you I apologize. Been working with herps over 30 years and times have changed, guess I have not changed fast enough as I still can sign my name.
>>
>>Thanks, Rich Hebron

Thats a nice pine, thanks for the pic.

I will check your site for more info..

Rich Hebron

I don't breed Pines. I collect bulls. I was simply responding to KJ and Terry. I'm so sorry I invaded your thread with nothing germane to your original query. I will certainly be more careful in the future with regard to such trivial matters as to my thoughts on any matters not directly pertaining to the original posters needs. My sincerest apologies for interfering and waisting your time with my frivolous posts.

CHRIS KENNARD

KJ, thats exactly what I am running up against. Many are responding to me as you listed. So and so said they were when I bought them and other things of this nature.

I noticed you also mentioned a clique of sorts with some breeders. I notice that same thing in many of these forums. One line responses stating "I have them" with nothing more posted except a screen name. That may be adequate to let your buddies know you have them but what about the 100s of people who read these posts. They read them for information. Sadly, I had stopped posting in forums, years ago, because there was more bicker or ego flame then knowledge dissemination erupting. I agree with your detailed analogy of this particular way many now deal with locale specific labeling. I unfortunately though also see how this analogy covers our hobby, or "business" as it is being referred to by more and more, being more the rule then the exception.

Thanks, Rich Hebron