Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What would you get if you breed a pastel 100%het pied to a 100% het pied? Would i get something like a pastel pied or would i need a pastel 100 het x patel 100 het or a pastel 100 het x a pied?

You could get a pastel pied with that combination.
-----
www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

1 in 8 for Pied
2 in 8 for Pastel Het Pied
2 in 8 for Het Pied
1 in 8 for Pastel
1 in 8 for Normal

Looking at it another way, your hatchlings would be:

Pastel Pied
Pastel 66% Het Pied
66% Het Pied

bsleeper, since you kinda asked a two-part question... and I love genetics in general, here is my expanded answer for you (I leave fractions unsimplified to make proportions perhaps a little clearer):

As "Morphine" explained,
Pastel Het Pied X Het Pied would statistically produce:
1/8 Pastel (NOT Het Pied)
2/8 Pastel Het Pied
1/8 Pastel Pied
1/8 Normal (NOT Het Pied)
2/8 Het Pied (Normal looking)
1/8 Piebald

Which would have to marketed as:
(3/8) Pastels 66% possible Het Pied
(1/8) Pastel Pied
(3/8) 66% possible Het Pied (Normal looking)
(1/8) Piebald

...but you also asked about another cross:

Pastel Het Pied X Pastel Het Pied would statistically produce:
1/16 Super Pastel (NOT Het Pied)
2/16 Super Pastel Het Pied
1/16 Super Pastel Pied
2/16 Pastel (NOT Het Pied)
4/16 Pastel Het Pied
2/16 Pastel Pied
1/16 Normal (NOT Het Pied)
2/16 Het Pied (Normal looking)
1/16 Pied

Which would be marketed:
(3/16) Super Pastel 66% possible Het Pied
(1/16) Super Pastel Pied
(6/16) Pastel 66% possible Het Pied
(2/16) Pastel Pied
(3/16) 66% possible Het Pied (Normal looking)
(1/16) Pied

... depending on what your goals are, however, I have a suggestion that should make all of this simpler. Based on your original question, my best guess is that want to produce Piebald Pastels. I think that if you have a Pastel Het Pied, the best thing you cross it to would be a Pied (visible morph = homozygous for the recessive allele). Here is why:
Pastel Het Pied X Pied would statistically produce:
1/4 Pastel Het Pied
1/4 Pastel Pied
1/4 Het Pied (Normal Looking)
1/4 Pied

No mystery, no "possible" Hets! If a snake produced from this cross is not Piebald, you know that it is Het Piebald! Much easier marketing!!

Hope this helps.
~Rebecca
-----
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04 (Courtney)
1.2 Ball Pythons
[1.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

I feel like the statistical side of genetics may not be fully understood. Realistically, genetics is just another form of a study of statistics.

In what is termed "Mendelian" genetics (involving genes that are inherited simply, with 2 alleles at 1 locus), which is what we are largely dealing with in Ball Pythons (as well as most other reptile morphs), we use Punnett Squares to figure out expected outcomes of certain breedings. These expected outcomes are really probability figures. Statistically, in 100 identical breedings, the offspring of all 100 breedings can be expected to display genotypes and phenotypes in the Punnett Square proportions. The outcome of each individual breeding does not need to resemble the Punnett square very closely on its own.

When you consider a clutch of eggs, the Punnett Square probabilities are not necessarily applied to the clutch as a whole; the probabilities of each possible outcome are more accurately applied to each egg! This is where statisticians might start getting way too excited.

As a breeder with a goal, it is important to understand Punnet Squares not only to understand what crosses will meet our own goals, but also what other possible outcomes exist from a given breeding... and then the best thing you can do is use a cross that gives you the highest probability of producing what your goal.

~Rebecca
-----
0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04 (Courtney)
1.2 Ball Pythons
[1.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)