Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have made a habit of following the Herp Law/Cites forum, and discussing the issue of exotics with folks in other forums as well.

I am assuming many folks here are familiar with the dismal statistics regarding iguanas in captivity. The post below about yet another LPS with neglected iglets prompted me to post.
I fall into the category of herp-keeper who wonders why the dog and cat advocates, and animal rights advocates can organize to have a legislative voice, but the reptile keeping community, although appearing to want the same - has been unsuccessful to date in creating a legislative and advocacy group.

I am wondering if individuals that act as caretakers for iguanas (as one of the most readily visible species exploited) would support measures to stifle the influx of animals that are unlikely to survive 2 years in captivity. Do you believe you would own a green iguana if you were required to obtain a permit for ownership prior to purchase? Or, would you own an iguana if the animal cost $150.00 instead of $15.00?

Thoughts and opinions welcome.

Yes, I would support both a permit required for ownership of an iguana, as well as a higher cost. I believe further, that you should have to demonstrate knowledge BEFOREHAND, of the diet and habitat required, the size that they will become, and the lifespan they can have. This would cut down on the impulse buying of iguanas, especially where a mother has 2 children, and buys EACH an iguana, so each child is happy.
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Lamar, Debbie, Nathaniel and Iggi :>~

I would support it. I also believe petstores and employees should eb trained on PROPER husbandry BEFORE they are hired and before they can sell an iguana or any reptile for that matter!
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Heather, Vern, Andy, Router, April And OODLES of fish

First let me say that I think the Iguana forum is probably different from most of the other herp forums on Kingsnake in that I'd bet 75-80% of the posters here have not purchased their iguanas, but rescued them..

The one iguana I currently have is a rescue from the shelter where I work, and speaking as a shelter worker, yes, I would support a ban on the import of green iguanas...I think they're just too big and difficult for most people to care for adequately..The shelters around here, on the advice of the local herp club and zoo, euthanize most of the iguanas they get in because there are simply not enough good permanent homes to go around...It's sad and frustrating...I would also support a ban on all crocodilians, large monitors, and giant constrictors for the same reasons...

I have no problem with 90% of the smaller captive bred herps people enjoy, including beardies, geckos, uromastyx, corn snakes, etc...and certainly would not want restrictive legislation on the hobby as a whole, but restrictions or even a total ban on iguanas would not upset me in the least...I enjoy my iguana immensely, but would not go out of my way to buy an iguana from any source; pet store, breeder or importer..

SR

Do you know what would happen to your iguana if they were banned? The government wouldn't let you keep it just because you're good. They'd take it, euthanize it, and throw it the landfill with the thousands of other well cared for igs. The government is not known for doing these things in half measures, and getting them to draw the line is tough. Are monitors dangerous? Are ackie monitors? Are tokay geckos? What constitutes a 'giant constrictor'? Can a boa constrictor be dangerous? A blood or carpet python? A big kingsnake? They all have salmonella don't they? Best to take them all away, like the HSUS wants. Do you see where this is leading? The government is not our friend here. I find it ironic that you enjoy your pet but don't want anyone else to have one.
I think I'm alone in thinking that the BEST way to stop the horrors of importation is captive breeding programs coupled with consumer education. If people want an iguana and know the difference, they'll be more likely to pick a slightly more expensive CB one over a sickly WC one. This hasn't worked for ball pythons, all the way, mostly because people are just cheap. But I think it makes a difference.
Well, who knows. It's a dilemma. As long as people mistreat each other, it's going to be a losing battle to get them to treat their pets right.. but one worth fighting.

I believe that a permit system is a much better alternative to an outright ban. Obviously from an enforcement perspective, it seems impractical and would put a greater burden on already strapped state resources. However, making iguanas restricted, as opposed to banned, eliminates their access at common retailers. Twelve year old kids would no longer be able to purchase an 'iguana setup' for 50 bucks.

I still believe finding a way to curb supply will naturally lead to higher cost, and consequently far less demand. They simply are no longer impulse purchases if their cost is prohibitive. If iguana.iguana were in the same price range as the cyclura species, I believe that due to cost, haphazard ownership would become far less common.

Human nature.. if it's expensive, it's more precious, eh?
Permits can be good for everyone because the government can use the fees for conservation. IF they're not impossible to get. But any herp can be mistreated, and I'd hate to see a permit for all of them.. unless it was very easy to get.
I do wish that all herps magically cost at least 50$ or something of the sort.. that would just be nice! Well, except feeder lizards and snakes...

The permit system should help where people are concerned about idiots releasing iguanas and burmese pythons. I will support this.

Meanwhile, we reptile types need to fight the carnivals that are abusing our animals. If they gave dogs or cats as prizes, the dog and cat people would be sitting on the capital steps by Monday.

We have some problems and dog people have puppy mills. We need to show that there are concerned reptile owners.

But given the current mindset, and the staggering number of animals that can be imported, that mindset is not likely to change soon.

Worse still, is as a result, there is little motivation to breed igs domestically by herpetoculturists. If anything, hobbyist breeding only achieves adding more animals that are likely to be poorly cared for and ultimately abandoned or given up.

My opinion? There is no need for a half million or more juvenile iguanas to come into the US each year. But I also recognize that companies who make products that cater to that market would be in no hurry to see things change, or to help with change.

I do not understand how an animal that can outlive most dogs, can attain lengths of 6 feet, and is capable of lacerating skin with claw and tooth, has been shoe-horned into an image of a 12" lizard that can be kept in a 20 gallon tank with some sticks and a heat lamp. To say nothing of the gross misinformation presented about diet and husbandry.

I have issue number 1 of "Reptiles" magazine, which came to being during the explosion of herps as pets in the late 80's early 90's. The cover shot, and featured article is the green iguana. It seems that things have worsened in the decade that has followed.

Finished with my rant, please feel free to add your own.

I ALWAYS hear how the cost of the pet = the right to vet care.
I am writing all this up to get carnival prizes banned in VA.

Cindy

Unfortunately, in my line of work, I have watched very expensive animals get dumped and lacked vet care. The owners thought it would be cool to have (you fill in the blank) until it got too big, too aggressive, to much of a pain to care for and outlived its cuteness or novelty. (I've seen everything fom pit bulls and bob cats to iguanas and sulcata tortoises to cockatoos and budgies.) My house is the land of misfit pets as I have adopted some of these rogue abandoned animals. (amazingly all living in harmony in their own areas unless supervised) I can think of no easy answer. Permits might help, though I see alot of black-market pets too. I strive to change attitudes with my job and hope I reach at least half of those I talk to. I'm open for suggestions.

I would definantly support a permit or a drastic increase of ig prices. I dont think that many windowshoppers would consider buying a 6 or 7 inch ig if they cost 200 bucks. Although if you were to so research on the species and really wanted one bad enough, you would be willing to make that kind of investment. I think igs are way-cool and are definantly worth the $200. The plight of the Green Iguana is heartbreaking and shows how mankind has come to take nature, and life for that matter, for granted. Luke (my baby boy) is like a child to me, you can't put a pricetag on love.
-Stefano

Luke:

Hi there all,
Well going to put up the out side arguement just for he heck of it.
{This by no means explains my real position on things}
Well if you allow the government to play another part in the pet trade then there is room for desaster. Think of the argument they might be able to make if they can make some one purchase a permit to own an iggy. They could start saying that they are dangerous and ban them all together, or atleast work toward other large lizards like the monitor type lizard. As far as a price hike on the iggys I am not sure, I agree that I prolly would not have two iggies now if they were so expensive as $200 but then again I have them cause some ignorant parent thought it would be a good pet till it out grew a 10 gallon.
I do not have the answers to this problem but I do think that something has to happen to help these great animals from the abuse they are taking at the hands of throw away pet parents.
(By the way I might be getting another mistreated iggy )
Another person that cant afford $10 in greens and some heat lamps. Grrrr.
My Iggs are so spoiled that they chase the doggs off to get at there food bowls just for the heck of it. Dog food has too much protien I tell them but they say it just tastes good. I dont know what to tell these silly iggies.
Back to the ranch.... I would agree to the price hike first but you will never get the breeders to all follow this trend.
My .02
David...

Hey David,

appreciate your input. My fear is, that if the herp community takes no active role in formulating policy, eventually someone else is going to - and it probably won't be to our benefit. A ban, is far easier from a bureaucratic point of view than regulation. I truly believe that the landscape for keeping herps is going to change drastically over the coming decade - primarily at the state level. So, far better that herp-keepers have an organized, unified voice now, that can have a say in responsible and reasonable legislation that safeguards the right to maintain the animals, while acknowledging that some changes must be made to the existing nature of the business. I keep thinking that the best way to interest states in regulating the import of iguanas is to tax them - much like other imports.

This leads me to your last point regarding iguana breeders. Central and South American iguana farmers certainly would not want to see the sort of idea outlined above. Nor would I think, would the many businesses who create products built around the massive number of juvenile igs available. But this actually creates an impetus for domestic breeders. Assuming imports drastically drop as a result of higher costs for bringing the animals into the country, domestic breeders can then produce relatively limited numbers and subsequently get more money for their offspring.I doubt that breeding igs would be a profitable venture domestically, but certainly would have a limiting factor on the influx of disposable juveniles. To my mind, anything that accomplishes the goal of eliminating a 95% mortality rate but still leaves the option of keeping an iguana available to responsible keepers, is worth consideration.

This is my fear also. The dog and cat people stand up for laws on abusing their animals. We need to do this.

I and the other reptile rescues in my state of VA will present a bill to ban animals from being free prizes at local carnivals.
If you read the HSUS book on why they want to ban reptiles, this is one of the reasons.

WE, must clean up some of the worst abuse and we must be seen doing it. They can't say we are all abusive if the caring ones get the press.

Cindy

!! NO animal protein!!, in any appreciable amounts, for any long term! This is causing damage to your igs kidneys, that may result in death by renal failure in about 4-5 years!! Keep them away from all sources of animal protein!. Plant sources such as Tofu is OK.
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Lamar, Debbie, Nathaniel and Iggi :>~